Thread: Spark blow-out / break up and bucking from 2.5k-4.5k rpm (custom AEM EMS install).

Brent, we should talk. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? There might be easier/cheaper/better ways of doing it that I might be able to help you with.

I plan on making a few once I can find time with daylight. But do you have any specific requests? Just want a video if it starting and running? What would you like? =]

of it running and one of it driving

I simply want a strong ignition signal with more control and I think the COPS give you that. A coil and plug wires and distributor cap and rotor are all wear points that I rather not deal with when troubleshooting or tuning. I really don't care what type, I just want a nice clean fit. I dont want COPS that flop around inside the head or don't seal off the plug holes and prevent water from entering. Honestly, AEM requires an external box to fire them so I figured the AEM box would be easiest. What are you using to feed the COPS?

http://www.sr20-forum.com/tuning/24991-i-need-help-someone-aem-ems-their-sr20-fixed.html

The best explanation is probably here:

Moved EMS from Nissan S13 to B13 with Honda COP - No spark. (Fixed!)

I didn't want to use a CDI box so I went this route.
Frankly, if you don't want to use CDI, you could probably get K20 or S2k coils and be better off.

Of course. You get the control, and as far as strength goes... Typically COP gives you quite a bit of extra energy per spark on it's own. If you use it in conjunction with a CDI box then you've basically got F1 strength ignition right there.

Yep.

Very understandable. Here's where you should do some research. Pay attention. =]
The only thing I heard of that would even remotely fit a FWD configuration was the Denso COP from a Honda CBR600 motorcycle. Obviously I was mislead, as there are many more choices.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the short AEM pencil COP are the exact same Denso coils used on the 2002 and older Honda CBR600 and the CBR1000.
(The Honda stuff can be had in like new condition on eBay for $50 all day long.)

I've also heard the Honda K20 motor (from the RSX Type-S and others) has COP that fits.
I've also heard the Honda F20C and F22C motors (from the S2000) have COP that fits.


Fitment is important, and I can tell you my experience with the 2003 or newer Honda CBR600 extra short pencil COP. They are slightly too short requiring this modification to the spark plug valleys of your valve cover.
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/132464/1497/737528.jpg

The rubber fitment boot also seemed to require trimming.
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/132464/1497/737542.jpg
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/132464/1497/737533.jpg
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/132464/1497/737535.jpg
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/132464/1497/737536.jpg

When all is said and done they fit quite well, but not perfectly.


The AEM "short" pencil coils or 2002 and older CBR600 are a bit taller, so they would not require the valve cover cutting and are probably the better choice.

Another note about the Honda CBR COP. They require the spark plug tips of your spark plugs to be removable like this.
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs194.snc1/6530_141807910099_719285099_3752791_7483986_n.jpg

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the AEM pencil COP is probably the same (you should check). This style of spark plug is becoming hard to come by and NGK isn't making them anymore from what I've seen. Your options are limited to Bosch (which aren't great) and Denso (which are expensive and can't be found local).

Now, if the AEM pencil coils will accept the larger spark plug tip, and AEM can guarantee good fitment then by all means go with them.
However I would seriously consider buying a bad coil from a K20 and an F20 for a few bucks to see how they fit if you don't plan on going with a CDI box.

If you do plan on going with a CDI box just ignore the 3-wire COP (K20 and F20) all together and get some 2-wire coils (Honda CBR, AEM pencil).


Now if you don't want to spend the money on the CDI box (and it's a big hunk of change) you can go with the 3-wire coils or do what I did with the power transistors explained in the AEM forum link above and turn the 2-wire COP into 3-wire.


I completely understand. I do believe you're going to need to get assurance from AEM that they fit and seal well before buying. And I can vouch for the Honda CBR coils. They fit well and seal well, although not perfectly. If the rubber seal contacts oil and is warm it seems to stretch out the rubber and it will get "bigger" on you. This happened to a couple of mine and they still fit and seal well, it just doesn't look great. It's hard to explain.
Again, I'd recommend finding K20 or F20 coils somehow and test fitting them as well. They could be your ticket. They can be used with CDI too if you need the extra energy.

This is not true. I know it's been said a million times that it's required, but that isn't true. It's a well kept secret that you can do what I've done and avoid that cost. I've found others on the AEM forum who've done it, and I know someone else in AUS who's done it as well. It works peachy.

You follow all that? :o

I've found even more information about the COP situation, and now I know why everyone said the CBR600 COP would fit, and I had trouble with mine. It's because they made them shorter in 2003 and I got mine from a 2008 and everyone else was getting them from 2002 and older.

I've made a thread to hold all the COP info. http://www.sr20-forum.com/tuning/26028-cop-coil-plug-pencil-coils-will-fit-fwd-engine.html

Great stuff! my buddy has a honda cbr of that vintage i think so I am going to hit him up tomorrow and check it out.

Brent

LOL ^ Steal his COPs?

The AEM wheel is a way to fix the problem, although we have found that its still not 100%.

Utilizing a hall effect sensor, cam trigger wheel, pencil coils and a good CDI box will resolve any ignition issues. We have a kit for this available if anyone is interested.