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Thread: T2 Turbo Manifold Testing: Avenir vs GTiR vs ASP VET Manifold

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Posts: 1-10 of 19
2013-11-04 02:36:00
#1
T2 Turbo Manifold Testing: Avenir vs GTiR vs ASP VET Manifold
Ever since posting this thread, I've been curious about how much power GTiR manifolds make over Avenir's. Also, I was curious to see a comparison to a much better flowing manifold: ASP tubular VET Manifold.

Top to bottom: ASP VET, GTiR, Avenir



Top to bottom: ASP VET, Avenir, GTiR



Avenir Manifold
Installed:


Head view:


Real flow restriction:



GTiR Manifold
Installed:


Head view:


Major flow restrictions:




Found it much more painful to fit a 3" intake on the GTiR manifold, it hits the trans.



ASP VET Manifold
Installed:


Head View:


No real flow restrictions, very good merge collector compared to the other two manifolds too.




Finally the results... keep in mind these are done using Virtual Dyno on same stretch of road.
Setup: Roller Rocker, GT2860RS "Disco Potato", 3" Exhaust


I'm really surprised that GTiR manifold was not only more painful to install, more painful to attach a 3" intake to (or have a 3" comp housing), but also didn't make any real power over the Avenir.

Perhaps what surprised me the most is the fact that a much better designed ASP manifold didn't make all that much power over the other two. I think this is because of very low overlap stock Roller Rocker cams, thus T2 turbo restrictions still supersede the manifold restrictions.
Last edited by Vadim on 2015-08-09 at 22-36-52.
2013-11-04 03:15:54
#2
Good peice of work. Thanks for putting n the work
2013-11-04 04:23:00
#3
Wanted to cross post Charle's post from G20.net, which explains on why ASP didn't make all that much more power over the other two. Simply put exhaust to intake pressure ratio, the lower it is (by having low boost), the less power is lost due to inefficient manifold designs.

Originally Posted by Snickers
I did a similar test when I built those tubular manifolds. I did find the same thing at the lower HP levels. Even if you install some S3R cams the power different wont be muh. But if you cranked the boost up to say 15-16psi you will see more of a difference. I did a comparison with the GTiR and the other tubular manifold an on a DPT setup with S4's at 15psi there was a 15whp difference at full boost (3500) and about 30whp at peak power plus a smoother graph. One of the other guys that bought another tubular VET did a 2871 setup on a VE-T and had about 60whp difference I think IIRC.

Either way, thanks for the results. Throw some cams in and crank the boost
2013-11-04 04:46:47
#4
Hey Vadim,

Very surprising results! The Avenir makes more power than the GTI-R until 6500rpm?! Whaa?!

What A/R do you have for the turbine housing on the Disco?

p.s. I plan on picking up the water lines this week lol

p.p.s 8psi? wtf? turn up the boost! 12psi at least. Don't be afraid of the boost. I have a good friend here in KC who ran a 2860 on a stock roller for a couple years @ 17psi daily and 22psi w/'race' gas. Engine still going strong when he sold it.

-G
Last edited by gomba on 2013-11-04 at 04-59-25.
2013-11-04 05:43:41
#5
Awesome job testing! I suspect that a big reason your not seeing larger differences is, well, because a set up is only good as its worst restriction ... if you had a better flowing exhaust elbow I think there would have been more variances
2013-11-04 12:36:13
#6
Very cool man... Thanks for doing all the work to get this comparison. This just shows you that keeping it cheap and simple with smaller setups is perfectly fine.
2013-11-04 13:05:55
#7
As always - awesome info !
Respect!
2013-11-04 16:14:00
#8
Originally Posted by gomba
Hey Vadim,

Very surprising results! The Avenir makes more power than the GTI-R until 6500rpm?! Whaa?!

What A/R do you have for the turbine housing on the Disco?

p.s. I plan on picking up the water lines this week lol

p.p.s 8psi? wtf? turn up the boost! 12psi at least. Don't be afraid of the boost. I have a good friend here in KC who ran a 2860 on a stock roller for a couple years @ 17psi daily and 22psi w/'race' gas. Engine still going strong when he sold it.

-G


GTiR had a fatter power band though, I wouldn't read into the graphs that much though, real dyno would show much more realistic numbers. Virtual dyno is good for giving you a side by side comparison mainly for peak numbers.

I had a 5 psi wastegate on this this thing, plan was to do boost by gear with NEMU, hence low wastegate PSI. Since I'm done with this car, no point in cranking up.

Originally Posted by cory
Awesome job testing! I suspect that a big reason your not seeing larger differences is, well, because a set up is only good as its worst restriction ... if you had a better flowing exhaust elbow I think there would have been more variances


Going divorced would yield even more gains, but the elbow is not THAT bad. Plenty of people run 300whp on it still.

Originally Posted by se200
Very cool man... Thanks for doing all the work to get this comparison. This just shows you that keeping it cheap and simple with smaller setups is perfectly fine.


Yup that's what I noticed. KISS for simple setups.
2013-11-04 17:12:54
#9
Originally Posted by Vadim


I'm really surprised that GTiR manifold was not only more painful to install, more painful to attach a 3" intake to (or have a 3" comp housing), but also didn't make any real power over the Avenir.

Perhaps what surprised me the most is the fact that a much better designed ASP manifold didn't make all that much power over the other two. I think this is because of very low overlap stock Roller Rocker cams, thus T2 turbo restrictions still supersede the manifold restrictions.


Great test, but it looks like the VET manifold was quite a bit richer. May be the reason for less power?
Last edited by Vadim on 2016-12-22 at 14-34-16. Reason: Fixing the image
2013-11-04 17:27:44
#10
Could be, I didn't monkey with the tune between the manifold runs because I wanted to have one less variable.
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