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  1. #1
    SR20VE-T Boost Junky!
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    Default Prepping for MAP conversion

    Couple questions..

    #1 for IAT sesnor use pin #8 and pin #21 or #29? Can i just cut the plug off in the bay an wire it to the iat sensor an be good to go? if so does anyone have a pic of what it looks like, or maybe describe it and its location?

    #2 when setting up my map sensor, i'm only seeing negative numbers in the gauges and datalogs, an even then nothing lower then -17 (meaning its usually 18-22) even then i had to mess with the multiplier, added .4 to get it to match my gauge which shows 22.. and yes i set it to inhg/psi.. did i wire it up wrong? i followed the write up as far as i could tell..
    Last edited by lynchfourtwenty; 05-04-13 at 04:51 AM.

  2. #2
    NA is ALL turbo lag.
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    Ah no, i had all similar issues and still havent totally worked them out. Im using a Australian Spec Sentra ecu, 68c00, which doesnt seem to have EGR temp input for the IAT sensor to connect to. I ended up going with ADC inputs for both Map and IAC, even tho i had gm IAC sensor i had to calibrate it manually, and ended up with 2 5k resistors in parallel to get it a bit closer before calibrating with water of various temperatures. Think i got it close but not sure yet.

    I dont understand the scaling for Map sensor yet, using Omni 3 bar didnt work at all and gave me load about 3/4 up the map. I need to do more work on this when i get time. Did notice on logs that the output of the Map sensor is really similar to Maf on graph log, but is a lot higher numbers, but the shape of the line is pretty much identical. I just need to work out how to translate this to a load to control a load map.

    Im hoping what ive been working on can help others to get similar setups working faster too.

    Have you got your Map wired into Maf wiring or adc input? If maf wiring is better and doesnt need as much calibrating, then i might go with that, but its nice to be able to use maf still atm.
    Last edited by Evlnxr; 05-04-13 at 06:49 PM.
    GTIR

  3. #3
    SR20!
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    Would a step by step guide be asking too much?

  4. #4
    NismoTronic Guy
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    The guides for wiring them are here.

    NismoTronicSA Resources

    As far as the MAP sensor scaling is concerned .. the drop down selections are the "default" scalar/offset for the MAP sensor from factory specs.

    I have found that almost every MAP sensor I have hooked up, either through the ADC input or the MAF input will need additional corrections to the scaling.

    To do this, choose the MAP sensor you are using in the drop down THEN choose custom. When you choose custom, it will allow you to edit the scalar and offset values so you can get your load scales to match properly.

    Here are a few that I have done for customers that have been pretty much spot on for their setups.

    OMNI 4bar
    OFFSET: 0
    SCALAR: 800

    OMNI 3bar
    OFFSET: 5
    SCALAR: 700

    OMNI 2.5bar
    OFFSET: 100
    SCALAR: 500

    As far as the IAT sensor installation is concerned, there are only a few ECUs that actually use the EGR temp input for the FWD SR20DE ECU.

    So, I would suggest following the instructions on how to wire up the IAT through the ADC input box.
    Last edited by JKTUNING; 05-04-13 at 10:15 PM.
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  5. #5
    SR20VE-T Boost Junky!
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    I think I catch your drift... thanks man I'll report back tomorrow

  6. #6
    SR20VE-T Boost Junky!
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    Would it be silly to cut the egr wiring by the ecu plug to make use of the wires since theu are almost in the perfect spot and already ran?

  7. #7
    SR20VE-T Boost Junky!
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    another thing, in this link

    http://www.nismotronic.com/Resources/MapInstall.pdf

    it says,

    RED * switched 12v
    BLK * ECU GROUND
    PNK * 5v output to MAP SENSOR 5v SOURCE
    YLW * 5v INPUT from MAP SENSOR SIGNAL

    but it doesn't mention the green wire in the picture, which is going to the outward ground for the map sensor.. i grounded my map sensor to the strut tower, i used a tester around the bay and it seemed as good place as any..

    should i change this? should i ground the breakout to the same location as the ecu grounds and then ground the map sensor to the breakout? or will it be ok as is?

    Also when wiring the IAT using the breakout box is it ok to share the 5v out with the map sensor? and does the 5k resistor go between the sensor and ADC or do they kinda run together before the sensor? and again, should i use the breakout box ground or does it matter?

    i do know that having things share common grounds can sometimes help, but if its not a big deal i like to make things simple.
    Last edited by lynchfourtwenty; 05-05-13 at 04:42 AM.

  8. #8
    NA is ALL turbo lag.
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    I put the resistor straight inside the ADC box between the 5v and ADC terminal, but then ended up putting another 5k resistor in parallel to get the reading a bit closer as the calibration was way off.

    The adc box has 3 terminals marked as ground. As i see it, the green wire is the map sensor earth, as a signal earth, and the black wire is to ground (chassis) to provide the 5v output.

    The 5v is regulated, so shouldnt matter if i has more than one load on it. Ive got a couple of different grounds/earths running around as my wideband is wired into some of that part of the wiring as well, i have a earth from the wideband to the sensor earth on the adc so no chance of voltage difference, and my wideband reads exact without any offset required.
    GTIR

  9. #9
    TunerCode, it's OnTheChip
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynchfourtwenty View Post
    Would it be silly to cut the egr wiring by the ecu plug to make use of the wires since theu are almost in the perfect spot and already ran?
    Only you can answer that question, but I use the stock harness as much as possible. Just be sure to document your wiring changes for the next guy.

    Dave

  10. #10
    TunerCode, it's OnTheChip
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    The IAT conversion table was made with my GM open-element IAT sensor on my EGR temp. sensor input using my thermocouple, plugged into my tire temp. gauge, for calibration. Everyone must calibrate their IAT conversion table to their own satisfaction. :smile:

    Dave

  11. #11
    NismoTronic Guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynchfourtwenty View Post
    another thing, in this link

    but it doesn't mention the green wire in the picture, which is going to the outward ground for the map sensor.. i grounded my map sensor to the strut tower, i used a tester around the bay and it seemed as good place as any..

    should i change this? should i ground the breakout to the same location as the ecu grounds and then ground the map sensor to the breakout? or will it be ok as is?
    You can ground the MAP sensor to the ADC box if you would wish, that isn't a problem.
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  12. #12
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    awsome guys!!

    does the adc box need a ground at all if im using other grounds for my map/iat?

  13. #13
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    Ok, So there are a TON of ways to wire up a MAP and IAT sensor..

    Here's what i found..

    blue w/ yellow strip pin 8 EGT sensor
    black 21 or 29
    this plug is located near the "AIV" plug by the #4 injector plug



    pink AIV solenoid pin 102
    white w/ green stripe goes to under dash plug
    this plug is located near the "EGT sensor" plug by the #4 injector plug




    grey EGR and canister control solenoid pin 105
    white w/ green strip also goes to under dash plug





    This plug is located right next to the tps plug..



    Your probably like, whats with the white wire w/ green stripe.. truth is i have no freaking clue, both the "AIV" and "EGR & Canister control solenoid" plugs have a white and green wire, the must connect somewhere and they lead to he big white under dash plug.. after that i have no idea where they go but with the dash plug connected i get a ground at pin #6 on the ecu plug which is a ground, if i unplug the white plug i get nothing at the ecu at all.. so its def a ground.. its odd tho it dont read 0.00 on the meter like the other ones, it reads 0.08 so maybe theres a resistor in place?



    So what i am doing is using the "AIV" and the "EGR & Canister" wires, they were in the right spot and all that, so the white w/ green stripe was made a ground since it was anyways..

    For the IAT i am using the grey wire (cut it from ecu plug) to goto the ADC box for signal..

    Then for the map im using the "AIV" wiring, so again white an green went to ground, pink is signal wire (cut it from ecu plug) and got routed to ADC box, then just ran a 5v out from ADC box to sensor..

    I haven't finished the IAT sensor wiring, i need a resistor i guess to complete it..

    Heres a pinout for reference..



    I was able to cross reference and double check on a spare harness, so im pretty comfortable stating this for a 91-92 b13 se-r.

    i'll report back when its all complete lol
    Last edited by lynchfourtwenty; 05-06-13 at 01:55 AM.

  14. #14
    SR20VE-T Boost Junky!
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    will this resistor work?

    NTE 5WR250 5W Silicone-coated Wirewound Resistor 5K Ohms | RadioShack.com

    or would this be better?

    http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062329

    and could i get a pic of how you guys wire them up? kinda confused lol.. the pic in this link is helpful but im not understanding where to run the resistor. do i connect 5v to one side then adc to the other then to the iat?
    Last edited by lynchfourtwenty; 05-06-13 at 06:12 AM.

  15. #15
    NA is ALL turbo lag.
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    Both are 5k1 resistors, both go from 5v to ADC with yellow wire. IAT is then wired one side to GND (the blue wire) and other to ADC (yellow wire).

    I used a digital thermometer, ice water with sensor in, measure temp, write down adc voltage, then add some warm water and repeat, then i boiled some water and kept adding cold till i had a fairly good spread of numbers to work with, then filled in the gaps. You can check by graphing the numbers to check that its a smooth curve.
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    GTIR

  16. #16
    NA is ALL turbo lag.
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    Oh, ive also wired Map into ADC so i can switch between maf and map for now, if i get the map working nicely then will remove the maf later. Its not like its limiting power or anything, i just want the bling of running map sensor lol, and incase someone wants me to tune a car with one down the track.
    GTIR

  17. #17
    SR20VE-T Boost Junky!
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    im so confused lol....

    why do ya have 2 resistors in your box?

    sounds like i have a lot of work cut out for me..

  18. #18
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    Ok so the white wire with green stripe does not provide a good ground. But I see no reason it cant be cut from the white plug an moved to the adc box then run a ground to the adc box

    EDIT DO NOT USE THE WHITE AND GREEN WIRE!!

    it some how finds its way from the white plug to the fan relay.. i cut it and my fan stopped working, honestly i dont even know if it worked since i wired it into my map sensor but i dont know for sure.. i snipped it from the map sensor and snipped it from the iat sensor and rewired it to the white plug but my fan is still not kicking on.. im going to double check a few things tomorrow but i might of fried something in the ecu or something

    if i did fry something in the ecu can is there some other way of rigging the fan to come on at a certain temp utilizing nemu or adc?
    Last edited by lynchfourtwenty; 05-07-13 at 12:14 AM.

  19. #19
    NA is ALL turbo lag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynchfourtwenty View Post
    im so confused lol....

    why do ya have 2 resistors in your box?

    sounds like i have a lot of work cut out for me..
    With one resistor like the original diagram my sensor was way out of calibration, was 105deg C with engine not running, and there would not have been any resolution left if i calibrated it like that. Putting another resistor in brings the voltage up a bit higher to the signal.

    I ran a separate loom to the AIT and Map, and then wired these straight to the ADC, rather than try mess with stock wiring, and wanted to keep the maf wired in for now but be able to test and calibrate the Map sensor still.

    Depends what ecu and outputs you are using, mine only has 3 outputs as its a SSS sentra ecu, and im using 2 outputs for VVL, so have aircon spare atm, if you had a spare output there is no reason you couldnt use it as a fan control.

    Test the fan relay and continuity from the fan control output on ecu to relay. The pin on the ecu feeds a earth to the fan relay, if it got power it might have fried it.
    GTIR

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    i should have plenty of outputs left.. only used the o2 sensor one so far lol

  21. #21
    NismoTronic Guy
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynchfourtwenty View Post
    i should have plenty of outputs left.. only used the o2 sensor one so far lol
    If you do use the ECU to control the fan MAKE SURE YOU USE A RELAY!

    The ECU outputs are not made to drive something like the fan directly and must use a relay in line.
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    TunerCode, it's OnTheChip
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynchfourtwenty View Post
    i should have plenty of outputs left.. only used the o2 sensor one so far lol
    O2 sensor is an input, so you haven't actually used an output.

    Cheers,
    Dave

  23. #23
    Turbo Junky
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    Man this looks so confusing man i'm getting a bit nervous now
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    Once you go turbo you'll never go back!!! :racer:

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheChip View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lynchfourtwenty View Post
    i should have plenty of outputs left.. only used the o2 sensor one so far lol
    O2 sensor is an input, so you haven't actually used an output.

    Cheers,
    Dave
    oh, i thought using the o2 heater to activate vvl counted has output? my bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by JKTUNING View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lynchfourtwenty View Post
    i should have plenty of outputs left.. only used the o2 sensor one so far lol
    If you do use the ECU to control the fan MAKE SURE YOU USE A RELAY!

    The ECU outputs are not made to drive something like the fan directly and must use a relay in line.
    totally! i was thinkin last night how i'd go about that.. maybe i could just hook one of the outputs to that white wire w/ green stripe that goes to the relay.. now that i know what it does.. i plan on going ape shit with the multimeter today lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrildo View Post
    Man this looks so confusing man i'm getting a bit nervous now
    well im doing my best to document this so that other guys have an easier time haha.

  25. #25
    TunerCode, it's OnTheChip
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynchfourtwenty View Post
    oh, i thought using the o2 heater to activate vvl counted has output? my bad.
    O2 sensor is an input, O2 heater is an output.

    Cheers,
    Dave

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrildo View Post
    Man this looks so confusing man i'm getting a bit nervous now
    If you have any specific questions you can always ask on here or just shoot me an email.

    I would suggest keeping it simple and just running your own wiring instead of hacking into the stock harness, especially if you are unsure of some of the wiring.
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  27. #27
    TunerCode, it's OnTheChip
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evlnxr View Post
    With one resistor like the original diagram my sensor was way out of calibration, was 105deg C with engine not running, and there would not have been any resolution left if i calibrated it like that. Putting another resistor in brings the voltage up a bit higher to the signal.
    I specified a 5k ohm to limit the current draw when thermistor resistance is low. Wiring two 5k ohm resistors in parallel is the equivalent of 2.5k ohms, doubling the current draw. While I have not tested the upper current limit of the 5V supply in the breakout box, I suggest using at least 5k ohms and calibrate by shifting the IAT conversion table. There should be plenty of resolution in a reasonably expected IAT range.

    If I had the ability, I'd attach an excel sheet that shows the voltage based on divider resistor. (Vadim?)

    Cheers,
    Dave

  28. #28
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    OK so IGNORE the white wire with green stripe!!!

    that little suckers all over the place.. it not only goes to the AIV and EGR canister plugs but it leads to the white dash plug, from there it goes to (i think) the fan relay under the hood and then the fuse box in cabin to the engine control fuse, or something along them lines.. So using it for a ground was highly foolish, i should have checked into it more.. BUT NOW YALL KNOW..

    i replaced the burnt fuse and now my rad fan works again, so no need to macgyver that shit... This time...

    im going to keep it simple and run external grounds, i already utilized the pink and grey wires from the AIV and EGR canister stuff which is all good..

  29. #29
    SR20VE-T Boost Junky!
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    alright i finally got the map an iat wired up! yay! ended up just running a ground from the map an iat to where my ecu an maf are grounded.. made life simple! lol

    you can see here, at first i tried utilizing the pin 21 ecu ground, wasn't working tho.. so went the other route.. however everything else remained but i dropped the grounds..



    i know my wire selection is limited but thats ok, i know whats what

    in this pic you can see how i wired up the resistor, what i did was ran a wire from the 5v out to one side of the resistor, then i peeled part of the insulation back on the grey wire im using as signal from the iat sensor and attached the resistor there, then the end of the grey wire goes to adc



    this is all i could find at my local radioshack



    hopefully that resistor will work ok..

    i tried to solder everything an use heat shrink.. having an inverter in the car kicked ass for using the soldering gun hehe

  30. #30
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    @lynchfourtwenty, how did this setup work for you? Everything working okay?
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  31. #31
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    fried my breakout box waitin on another haha.. learn from my mistakes guys! just wire it all seperate dont be fancy with the damn stock harness.

  32. #32
    Probably Speeding...
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    Thanks for the info. I was planning on running my own wiring for it anyway, but is there a way to get around the need for resistors?

    I thought I read something a while back about using the 5v source for the TPS... Also... if you're wiring straight off of the breakout box, you don't need any resistors, do you?
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    u need them for the iat because its a 2 wire sensor i believe..

  34. #34
    TunerCode, it's OnTheChip
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    Read this! IAT Sensor Installation

    The resistor IS REQUIRED!

    Dave

  35. #35
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    Yeah, I read the write-up on the website yesterday after all of this. I didn't realize that the power was inline with the signal wire (only a 2 wire, powered sensor)... I understand now why it's required.

    I'm debating on doing this, or just hooking up my MAF for the mean time until I find someone who can weld in the bung for me for the IAT on a new piece of IC pipe. Any decent alternatives to welding the bung in? F'n aluminum.....
    Last edited by blackngreenb14; 06-11-13 at 10:41 AM.
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  36. #36
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    Back from the dead!!

    Been switching back an fourth between maf an map lately as i learn what the hell i am doing, but i've made several trips to or from my friends house (about 12-15 miles or so each way) and i think im getting the hang of it..

    i also calibrated my IAT sensor, basically i started with ice water and a digital thermometer an put the sensor in and let the ice melt then entered the temp with the corresponding voltage box, next i heated some water up to boiling then put the sensor and digital thermometer in there and let the water cool down and again entered the temp in the corresponding voltage box.



    i did cheat on the last few HOT boxes cause i couldnt get the water that hot, also cheated on some of the colder temp boxs, under 40 an shit basically.. but its pretty linear so it should be close, i was able to guess pretty close what temp / volt each one would be after i did a few while the hot was cooling, so im sure its in the ball park.

    so far my intake temps seem to stay in the high 60's to low 80's, while driving. It is about 69-70 tonight which is about the the ambient temp is, while at a lite it went to 80 but once i started moving it went back down, thats pretty neat!

    its also very cool to be able to see what vac/boost your at.
    Last edited by lynchfourtwenty; 08-15-13 at 02:18 AM.

  37. #37
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    So what gauge wiring is recommended for this?
    Aztec Red- 91 Sentra XE GA16DE
    Aztec Red- 92 NX2K VE Powered Project
    Aztec Red- 92 NX2K Auto Hardtop
    Super Black- 92 NX2K VE powered

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sentraga View Post
    so what gauge wiring is recommended for this?
    awg 18

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    Been driving on nothing but speed density the last month but still. having a few issues..

    Super poor mpgs regardless of how I drive.. the afr is mostly dialed in but the weather really screws with it even tho I been using the iat an speed density corrections so the closed loop is constantly pulling or adding fuel to keep it right..

    Also my transition from decel to light throttle likes to go lean an even the closed loop doesn't help.. I adjusted the fuel table to try to fix it but I can only go so far before lines start crossing..

    Lastly I have an issue when I have been decelerating an I clutch in an when it trys to resume idle the rpms dip really low but it hasnt actually stalled yet.. i played with the idle and decel shit but nothin really helped..

    Any ideas?

  40. #40
    NA is ALL turbo lag.
    User Info
    Join Date: Dec 2007
    Location: New Zealand, dude!
    Posts: 552
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    Wow, all things i struggled with for ages. Its the complete unknown of how to fix it thats frustrating. Removing fuel and accel enrich to try and improve fuel econ just made the car flat and unresponsive, so im not sure where all the gas goes. Always noticed a big rich spike to mid 11s on light load back off, so im assuming that wasnt helping.

    I gave up and parked my P10 when i got my gtir, it uses less gas and is way easier to drive, but i do miss the power and handling of the P10. Havent driven it in about 3 months
    GTIR

 

 
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