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buyers BEWARE of (Storm88000) aka jordan white

Thread: buyers BEWARE of (Storm88000) aka jordan white

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Posts: 311-320 of 346
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2014-09-17 02:11:45
#311
Originally Posted by ebinkerd


You have refused to work with OP to mitigate the situation. And for refusing to do so, you were given negative feedback.


I'm sorry and no hard feelings, but you're wrong again. The *ONLY* option he gave me was to send him $175 and to also let him keep it.
Last edited by Storm88000 on 2014-09-17 at 02-15-18.
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2014-09-17 02:39:28
#312
Originally Posted by Storm88000
Originally Posted by ebinkerd


You have refused to work with OP to mitigate the situation. And for refusing to do so, you were given negative feedback.


Negative,

I'm sorry and no hard feelings, but you're wrong again. The *ONLY* option he gave me was to send him $175 and to also let him keep it.



Negative and you know it..
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2014-09-17 02:43:44
#313
Originally Posted by Storm88000
Originally Posted by ebinkerd
@dganic23


Wrong. I offered OP a full refund but he refuses to ship it back, even though "its usable but not to my liking." You can see now that my sarcastic post above let some of OP's real personality out, as he's starting to go to personal attacks. He basically told me to commit suicide. Wow. Only a matter of time before it gets worse. Told everyone what I've been dealing with.



you don't know how to interpret things, you always jump into your own conclusions...

I see what you're trying to do though...
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2014-09-17 02:51:02
#314
Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r



you always jump into your own conclusions...




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2014-09-17 02:55:22
#315
Originally Posted by Storm88000
Originally Posted by ebinkerd


You have refused to work with OP to mitigate the situation. And for refusing to do so, you were given negative feedback.


I'm sorry and no hard feelings, but you're wrong again. The *ONLY* option he gave me was to send him $175 and to also let him keep it.


Post #176 in the text message Oscar asks for a full refund or $175. You really should get your story straight.
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2014-09-17 03:04:10
#316
Originally Posted by ebinkerd

Post #176 in the text message Oscar asks for a full refund or $175. You really should get your story straight.



Ohhhh what do I know? It's only a matter of time before I "bust a Robin Williams"
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2014-09-17 06:47:38
#317
Originally Posted by Storm88000
Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r


this guy is unbelievable, what more proof do we possibly need to prove his dishonesty?? smh...



That was written before I saw SE-RMonkey's post with the photos showing that the two dings were already there before it was sent out. So, in an odd way, that was written because I believed YOU. I'll now use one of your most eloquent expressions: "smh."

Speaking of screen shots, where are the other two dozen text messages we exchanged, you know, the ones where I texted you photos of it and then after where you gave me ultimatums if I didn't give into your demands? Just happen to lose them? Also FYI, you should consider using punctuation. Or at least make an attempt. It shows respect for the reader. You could be the most intelligent guy on the planet, but typing run on sentences with vague distinctions between statement and thought gives you the appearance of being terribly lazy or a poor communicator.

Got to run now, SUPER secret meeting down at UPS. Going to see if we can get a pair of JWT cams to weigh 199 pounds. It's intoxicating watching that needle rise ounce by ounce, pound by pound. You get dizzy and start to sweat. Some dude even fainted! Although at first they laughed when I told 'em I could get that JMR to hit 99. You're crazy, they said. It can't be done, they said. But who's laughing now? Now apparently because of all this commotion FedEx got word and won't stop calling!



Jordan, can you please provide the proof of what you are claiming and what and you're talking about??

you seem to evade the question every time I ask...

can you be kind to explain why??
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2014-09-17 08:12:13
#318
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
his physical description that you are referencing left out all the flaws of the header...
Here was the physical description from the original sale thread:
"Good shape, i'd say 7/10. No holes or rust."

And the image just for completeness: https://i.imgur.com/TIwDXur.jpg


Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
he never mentioned any of the flaws on the physical description..
First off, I think we can agree the header doesn't have any [undesired] holes, and has negligible rust.

He did not mention the dents or scrapes specifically, nor the welded protective plates. We all understand this is the issue. Let me say that again. We completely understand why you're upset and agree that you are justified in giving negative iTrader feedback and opening this feedback thread to tell us about your negative experience with this seller.

However, the item was sold as used, for half price, and was described as "7/10". One man's 7/10 is another's 3/10 in this case. While not completely forthright, this is a seller doing their best to paint their item in a good light by glossing over the details. This is common in sales, and something you need to get used to if you're going to deal sight unseen, seller unknown. If you haven't learned this lesson by now after the issues you've had with sellers, I don't know what else to tell you. This is not Amazon.com or the likes. These are used items with incomplete descriptions being sold by people with varying degrees of integrity and interest in their own reputation.

On one end of the spectrum there are sellers who provide full disclosure on the most minute of details and then on the other end there are complete shysters. There may be a thin line in the middle of that spectrum where a seller crosses over to The Dark Side, but I don't feel Storm88000 has crossed that line. He may be approaching it, but he hasn't crossed it. There will be those members who don't want to do business with him based on his treatment of you, and the likelihood that they will be treated the same. There will also be a significant portion of members who don't think the sale went poorly and would have been okay buying the item sold as it was advertised. Heck, we've even had a member offer to buy it for the advertised price after seeing all of the images of the condition.

Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
also he never posted any of the pics where the damage was visible..
Same as the physical description, the image posted was to show the best possible view and leave out details on condition. This was absolutely deserving of a negative iTrader rating and understandably fueled this thread. Now that we as a community know this is how Storm88000 advertises his items, we will be MUCH better able to deal with him (or not) in future sales. I thank you very much for that, as should all of the members here. You have done us a great service and it was at your own expense.



I was planning on posting a better organized official response to this matter, but it looks like I'm already halfway there, so I will continue. This post can be considered the official response from the forum staff. Not the final word mind you (there is always room for discussion) but as of now this is how it is shaking out from the staff's perspective.



The way we see it, this was a matter of a buyer being lead to have quality expectations for an item that the item could not meet. This was mostly due to the seller glossing over details in the condition of the item (hence the legitimate negative feedback), but in such a way that would constitute lies of omission at best, but nothing overtly dishonest. The seller provided all of the required information to sell the item (and then some). The description of the item including the image was not so off base that it would run afoul of truth in advertising expectations. The seller worked with you to a reasonable amount after the sale when you displayed your dissatisfaction with the item. For these reasons, there is no punishment in the works for the seller.

Furthermore, I wouldn't demand (with new rules) anything more of our selling members, and I don't think many else would either. We as a community, and myself in particular, take rules and rule-making very seriously. By nature, rules are restrictive, and thus should not be applied lightly or without a very strong reason. We feel this way because we like to foster an environment of freedom above all else, believing this freedom leads to fairness, inclusiveness, allows for self-determination, and results in just treatment of all.

While we're on the subject of rules. You suggested a new rule about physical descriptions. Maybe I understood this rule proposal incorrectly. I thought you meant you wanted us to require a physical description. Maybe I was jumping to that conclusion. Maybe you wanted to require that if a physical description is posted, that it is required to be accurate? That is actually a law in the US and probably most other countries (truth in advertising laws) so it goes without saying we hold our members to that standard. Maybe you're thinking of some different type of rule? If you'd like to propose a new rule that you think would be appropriate, you are welcome to do that in the appropriate thread. We can talk about it more there.


So again, no infractions or banning or anything is planned for the seller. As for returns and shipping costs and whatnot... All individual/personal sales (versus buying from an established business) of used items on this forum are assumed to be final (no returns) and with no guarantees. It is nice when members offer those services (and the price can reflect that) but it is not required, nor should it ever be assumed. Without any agreements in place, this is the natural state of a sale, and thus we don't feel we would have a leg to stand on if we tried to demand the seller provide some sort of partial or full refund, or help you ship the item back to him if he's offered a return option after the fact.


I realize you have had a bad experience with Storm88000, and I thank you for bringing it to the attention of the community. I'm sorry the sale hasn't gone the way you'd hoped so far and that you fell into the gap between the type of sale we love to see on the forum and the type of sale that is allowed on the forum. This is exactly what the iTrader rating and feedback section is for and you've used them wisely. I hope the seller does the right thing and you two can come to an amicable resolution. @Storm88000, I urge you to do right by @91sentragti-r and provide him reasonable redress for this matter.




As for the (retaliatory?) iTrader rating and negative feedback thread given and created by Storm88000 against the buyer, we haven't decided if those will be allowed to stick around or not. Stay tuned for that decision.

Also, I'd like to point out the staff is not happy with Storm88000 for editing, deleting, and removing other references to the item in his other threads on the forum which showed damage to the item and better showed the condition of the item after the sale seemed to go awry. And while we're not happy about this, we realize this is within a member's ability as members own the copyright to their posts (something maybe members have forgotten over the course of time) and are welcome to edit them indefinitely as they see fit.

The staff do not like when actual sale threads get edited after an item is sold. Often we see sellers editing out the description of the item entirely and replacing it with "SOLD" text, then closing the thread. We would like this practice to stop, and may be able to come up with a solution that should work. If we can, we'll discuss it with the forum at that time.



I would also like to add a final note when bringing poor transactions to the attention of the members. Please take a step back, drop the emotions, gather the facts, and organize your case the best you can so the membership can digest it. The members and the forum staff will do our best to follow along, but if it is too jumbled, or too long to make sense of, or filled with unnecessary details and tangents, you won't be doing yourself any favors. It will benefit you in the long run, I promise.



ben let's not forget about the facts. you and i clearly know that Jordan knew about all the damages the header had. how could we forget after the storm he cried.. accusing and threatening the towing company that he was going to sue them... smh

so now all the blame is left on me because of due diligence?? So now Jordan just gets a slap on the wrist even though he left out those details that he clearly knew about??

I know I left him the negative trader rating and this thread I created, but that's protocol..

I strongly feel that you're being unfair because of the decision you made without having Jordan post his evidence of him sending me pictures via text conversations.
Last edited by 91sentragti-r on 2014-09-17 at 08-20-27.
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2014-09-17 13:10:46
#319
Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
ben let's not forget about the facts. you and i clearly know that Jordan knew about all the damages the header had. how could we forget after the storm he cried.. accusing and threatening the towing company that he was going to sue them... smh
After the initial shock wore off, he posted that it wasn't as bad as he thought and the oil pan took the brunt of the damage. He cooled down after a few days after he realized a new oil pan would be pretty much all he needed to get back in good shape with the car.
It's interesting what you'll find when you're an independent 3rd party doing real research AKA reading an entire thread not just the bits you want to read.

Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
so now all the blame is left on me because of due diligence??
Not sure what the fuck you're talking about? I clearly said (maybe in another thread?) the entire blame is on Storm88000. Where you would get the idea that you're to blame is beyond me.

Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
So now Jordan just gets a slap on the wrist even though he left out those details that he clearly knew about??
That is correct. I won't say it again. Accept it and move on. (Unless you have NEW information for us.)

Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
I strongly feel that you're being unfair because of the decision you made without having Jordan post his evidence of him sending me pictures via text conversations.
The decision we made assumed you were sent NO ADDITIONAL PHOTOS OF THE HEADER (other than what was posted in the for sale thread). Because as you say, the seller hasn't shown us that he sent you any additional photos before the sale went through. The fact that even you're confused about what is going on tells me that the staff deserves a fucking metal for being able to make any sense of this mess with how the two of you have presented your cases. This truly is one for the history books. Get your damn act together please.

Do you still think we're being unfair?
Last edited by BenFenner on 2014-09-17 at 13-14-24.
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2014-09-17 14:11:02
#320
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
ben let's not forget about the facts. you and i clearly know that Jordan knew about all the damages the header had. how could we forget after the storm he cried.. accusing and threatening the towing company that he was going to sue them... smh
After the initial shock wore off, he posted that it wasn't as bad as he thought and the oil pan took the brunt of the damage. He cooled down after a few days after he realized a new oil pan would be pretty much all he needed to get back in good shape with the car.
It's interesting what you'll find when you're an independent 3rd party doing real research AKA reading an entire thread not just the bits you want to read.

Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
so now all the blame is left on me because of due diligence??
Not sure what the fuck you're talking about? I clearly said (maybe in another thread?) the entire blame is on Storm88000. Where you would get the idea that you're to blame is beyond me.

Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
So now Jordan just gets a slap on the wrist even though he left out those details that he clearly knew about??
That is correct. I won't say it again. Accept it and move on. (Unless you have NEW information for us.)

Originally Posted by 91sentragti-r
I strongly feel that you're being unfair because of the decision you made without having Jordan post his evidence of him sending me pictures via text conversations.
The decision we made assumed you were sent NO ADDITIONAL PHOTOS OF THE HEADER (other than what was posted in the for sale thread). Because as you say, the seller hasn't shown us that he sent you any additional photos before the sale went through. The fact that even you're confused about what is going on tells me that the staff deserves a fucking metal for being able to make any sense of this mess with how the two of you have presented your cases. This truly is one for the history books. Get your damn act together please.

Do you still think we're being unfair?


I without a doubt think you're being unfair. Ill be the first to speak up.
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