Thread: B13 rear suspension re-assembly problem. Alignment all wrong. (Broadband only!)

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I thought I knew everything there was to know about the B13 SE-R. Apparently not, as I'm baffled now.


Long story:
I had a clunk in the rear suspension I was tracking down (it turned out to be the rear Progress torsion bar end links). I ordered a full rear suspension ES bushing kit and installed the bushings for the trailing arms only (or what ever they are) without any problems. I then replaced the stock suspension with a KYB AGX / Road Magnet combo, and all went well.

The clunk was still there though. I decided to install the ES rear parallel link bushings, partially aware of the controversy surrounding this "upgrade" in an attempt to get rid of the clunk, and tighten up the rear a bit more. When removing the 14 year-old, rusted rear parallel link hardware I managed to break the combination toe/camber adjustment bolts, and had to cut through the long outer bolts that attach the links to the hubs. All-in-all, two of the 6 bolts survived.

In the process of cutting through the bolts when I removed them, I put a slice in one of the parallel links, where the bushing is pressed in. I welded the slice, and ground it down to what I thought was perfect, but that one bushing was harder to insert than the rest and never really seemed 100% great.


I called up Greg V. and he sent me all new hardware for the rear. I put in the bushings, and re-assembled the rear parallel links assuming all four of the links where the same exact size so I didn't really take note of which one I put back where. When I was finished assembling, I adjusted the toe/camber bolts back to where they'd been before disassembly, and took a look at the situation. The driver's side tire had massive negative camber, and massive toe in. The passenger's side tire had massive negative camber. I adjusted the bolts to their extreme in an attempt to correct the situation. The passenger's side tire seemed to be fine now. The camber was gone, and the tire was flush with the fender as it has always been. The driver's side tire still had a bit of negative camber and toe in, but not as bad. The tire however was no longer flush with the fender as it used to be, and seemed to be 15mm inboard or so.

Still, the car had to be driven, so I left things this way. My friend following me said the car looked like it was crab walking. The car's body seemed right of center of the rear suspension, and the car was cοcked to one side while going straight down the highway.

I had a 2,000 mile road trip ahead of me, and wanted to get this fixed before I went. I had a suspicion that the rear parallel links were in fact not all the same, so the day before my trip I called up Greg V. to see if my suspicions were correct. Greg said there were different part numbers for the links, but could not confirm what, if anything was different about them.

I took the rear links apart and measured and measured trying to find a difference between the links without any luck. Upon disassembly, I found that the two long bolts (one on each side of the car) that hold the links to the hubs were both bent. The driver's side was bent much more than the passenger's side, but they were both bent.

Update: The bolts bent for three reasons.
1) I torqued them to 80 ft. lbs. instead of the 55-65 ft. lbs. recommended in the FSM (normally not a problem but see reason #2).
2) The surface the bushing mates to on the cast iron knuckle was angled to one side.
3) The ES bushings were much less forgiving than the factory rubber.

At this point I realized there was nothing I could really do at the time, so I put the car back together as best I could. This time, not adjusting the toe/camber bolts to the extreme, just keeping them in their original place (making the toe/camber situation awful at best). I went on the 2,000 mile road trip, and noted the tire wear. The tires were brand-new Falken Azenis. There is minimal wear on the front tires, the driver's side rear is maybe 1/3 gone, and the passenger's side rear tire is about 1/2 gone now.

Here are some pictures I took during the first disassembly:

























Short story:
Replaced all rear suspension parallel link bolts and installed urethane bushings. Rear suspension geometry is now completely wonky and bolts bent. Have a lot of negative camber on both sides, a lot of toe in on the driver's side, and driver's side wheel seems to be inboard more than the passenger side.





Questions:
What the hell happened?
How did the bolts bend?
What the hell do I do to fix the situation?
What is the real difference between the rear parallel links, if any?
Do I have new links, bolts, and rubber bushings in my future?

I Believe the links are different, I'll try to snap some pics tonight. if you need any, I have like 2 maybe 3 sets and one already have the ES bushing installed. and one is months old put no miles on them.

Is there any way at all to tell them apart? I tried my damnedest and couldn't distinguish them.

Man i really hate that, when tiny $hit goes wrong then makes everything go out of place.


I would guess go back and retrace your steps, if possible find the old links and try and match up where they could have potentially have gone.

Good luck.

I re-used the original parallel links. During the second installation I tried to make sure I put them back the same way, as they were in the beginning. I'm not sure if I succeeded. It wouldn't matter, as the long bolts are bent anyway. They will never allow for a proper alignment. I know I need new bolts. My worry is that if I order new bolts, I'll still not be able to put it together properly, as I have no idea what the difference between the rear parallel links is. And I don't know if one of my bushings is messed up, and will cause this again. And maybe the urethane is just too stiff, causing binding, which caused the bending of the bolts.

But then, why was the alignment off immediately after assembly?

So many things to consider. I need someone who's extremely familiar with the rear suspension geometry to chime in.

Aftermarket, adjustable rear parallel links are an option, but they might make things more complicated than they have to be. The stock components should work, you know?

I'm really leaning on the community here to help me out. I'm completely stumped. What's the real story about the rear parallel links and their differences (if any)?

My car won't be right until I get this fixed, and it's just a lack of knowledge here. The FSM has nothing in it about them...

Having just replaced both the rear shocks/springs (incidentally with the AGX/GC combo), as well as replacing the entire lot of bushings with the ES poly master set, I may have a suggestion or two.

First, when you installed the shocks, did you ensure the perches were indexed properly, with the stamped arrow pointing to the outside of the car? This could make a difference in how the shock sits, and therefore the camber. Your old rubber bushings may have tolerated misplacement of one or both perches, but the poly would not be nearly as forgiving. I am assuming these are new shocks, and not used ones that may have been tampered with (i.e. strut to hub holes hogged out to allow for camber adjusting, etc.).

FWIW, after I had burned out the old bushings, I lined up the lateral links, and I could not see any visual difference, other than the number stampings on the tops of the links. If they are not different, why would nissan have bothered to differentiate the part numbers? The only difference I can see is there is a hole in the side facing of two of the arms; I would be willing to bet they are a tie down point for an ABS sensor wire run. Maybe someone with ABS could verify?

I am curious about the bent bolts; which ones are we talking about? The ones that connect the two lateral links through the hub? Or the others that go through the bodyside attachment points? These look pretty hard to bend in any way if installed properly *each one through two pivot points, with the bolt head facing the nose of the car, and the nut facing the tail*.

Darrin

I'm not entirely familiar with the stamped arrow you speak of.

My struts have the adjustment knob facing the rear of the car. This is the only "indexing" I can think of. Do I have that right? Should the knob face the front of the car?

Or, are you talking about the spring hat that bolts to the strut tower? Is there a stamped arrow on that? I sort of remember there being one... You think maybe I have the hats swapped, or indexed improperly?

I'd love it if this were my problem, as it would explain everything so well...



Your assumption is correct.



I never even saw the number stampings you speak of. I saw the holes in the sides that you're speaking of, but as far as I remember, all four of the links had those holes... =/
I'll have to check if I can see the part number stampings. Maybe the previous owner had the rear links replaced with the wrong parts at some point. I figure anything is possible at this point.



The bolts that bent were the long ones that connect the two lateral links through the hub. They bent 2/3rds of the way down the shaft where the bolt leaves the hub and goes through the rear lateral link. They bent inboard. The other, shorter bolts are fine, and obviously much harder to bend.


Thanks for all of your insight. Get back to me about the strut indexing and such if you would.

The extra holes are indeed for ABS. No other diference that I can tell.

BRent

The strut can only face one way, with the adjuster facing to the rear *you've got that covered, so you are good to go there*.

There is a small arrow that is pressed into the upper spring seat, and the orientation is to have this arrow pointing to the outboard side of the car. If done correctly, when looking down on the assembly from above, you'll see the arrow pointing to the outboard side of the car (looking from the back, drivers side has arrow pointing left, passenger side arrow points right). For the drivers side, the actual strut shaft will be offset to the right, and vice-versa for the other side. Make sense? Having this orientation set incorrectly would cause all manner of problems. I hope this, in combination with new bolts, makes the difference for you.

Get back and let us know how you do, when you have a chance to check it out!

Darrin