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Thread: 2023 VE build.

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Posts: 41-50 of 153
2010-01-25 23:22:20
#41
YouTube - RuleBook

Dale = House
2010-01-26 03:28:59
#42
Originally Posted by lynchfourtwenty
why not you were like Right there????


Why does it matter?

I use my TDC dial gauge.

The set everything from there.

To me relying that you have the right marks is stupid. What if during assembly before the front cover goes on you somehow jump a link? The chain tensioner doesnt fully extend until its got total oil pressure - so with a totally fresh build there is always a chance of jumping a colour mark. Even so the bottom chain mark colour was barely distinguishable.

Better to be safe then sorry and do it the 100% foolproof way?
2010-01-26 03:30:22
#43
Oh - if they were so far retarded according to the links - on high cam it would have mangled a few pistons by now
2010-01-26 08:32:04
#44
Autech, I don’t really get you. Who are you trying to fool with that type of explanation for the chain marks being out of spec.

First, you are stubborn as hell still insisting the N1 pistons comes in .20” oversize when they don’t. They are .20 mm oversize, big difference.

Secondly, you just now found out your engine has more than 13:1 compression ratio, when most of us have been saying this for awhile. Remember your math came up with 11.8 for the N1 pistons.

Third, using the 16VE windage tray. Simply cranking the engine by hand would tell you the 2.0 crank can’t run with it.

Fourth, did not install the screw for the rocker arm rod.

Seriously, I question your mechanical ability.

I thought I help you out by giving you a hint. But all I hear is an excuse on your part. Like you meant to do that, please. Why go to the trouble of putting the marks close to the stock position if you have a special method?

Finding piston tdc is useless by itself when it comes to cam timing. You have to know both the cam lift and the piston relative position in order to know the actual cam timing.

The timing marks are there to help you. They put the cams in the general position relative to the crank for the correct cam timing. If you want to be more precise then you will need to get adjustable cam gears and degree wheel.

As for the possibility of chain jumping on the crank gear, Nissan has addressed this by providing a guide lip on the VE front cover so that won’t happen.
2010-01-26 09:55:11
#45
Originally Posted by 5speed
Autech, I don’t really get you. Who are you trying to fool with that type of explanation for the chain marks being out of spec.

First, you are stubborn as hell still insisting the N1 pistons comes in .20” oversize when they don’t. They are .20 mm oversize, big difference.

Secondly, you just now found out your engine has more than 13:1 compression ratio, when most of us have been saying this for awhile. Remember your math came up with 11.8 for the N1 pistons.

Third, using the 16VE windage tray. Simply cranking the engine by hand would tell you the 2.0 crank can’t run with it.

Fourth, did not install the screw for the rocker arm rod.

Seriously, I question your mechanical ability.

I thought I help you out by giving you a hint. But all I hear is an excuse on your part. Like you meant to do that, please. Why go to the trouble of putting the marks close to the stock position if you have a special method?

Finding piston tdc is useless by itself when it comes to cam timing. You have to know both the cam lift and the piston relative position in order to know the actual cam timing.

The timing marks are there to help you. They put the cams in the general position relative to the crank for the correct cam timing. If you want to be more precise then you will need to get adjustable cam gears and degree wheel.

As for the possibility of chain jumping on the crank gear, Nissan has addressed this by providing a guide lip on the VE front cover so that won’t happen.


It would be a shame to see all of this hard, and dedicated work go to waste.
I'm sure that Autech felt that he was doing things correctly, at the time.

I've seen engine builders spend more time checking, double checking, then double double checking, and checking again the cam timing marks on the pulleys.
The guy that I saw builds virtually every competitive NZ Drift car, and when quizzing him about 'getting more from the motor playing with the cam and chain timing' he was a very insistent N O! He even has his own Nissan FSM that he takes everywhere for reference, never deviates from it.

It's also easy to overlook the small things in the haste to complete a project; let's face it, it's ALWAYS late, your ALWAYS tired, your ALWAYS in a hurry to complete it...
2010-01-26 13:17:33
#46
Originally Posted by amdeman
It would be a shame to see all of this hard, and dedicated work go to waste.
I'm sure that Autech felt that he was doing things correctly, at the time.

I've seen engine builders spend more time checking, double checking, then double double checking, and checking again the cam timing marks on the pulleys.The guy that I saw builds virtually every competitive NZ Drift car, and when quizzing him about 'getting more from the motor playing with the cam and chain timing' he was a very insistent N O! He even has his own Nissan FSM that he takes everywhere for reference, never deviates from it.

It's also easy to overlook the small things in the haste to complete a project; let's face it, it's ALWAYS late, your ALWAYS tired, your ALWAYS in a hurry to complete it...


Ditto. I'm one of them.
2010-01-26 13:41:57
#47
Originally Posted by 5speed
Autech, I don’t really get you. Who are you trying to fool with that type of explanation for the chain marks being out of spec.

First, you are stubborn as hell still insisting the N1 pistons comes in .20” oversize when they don’t. They are .20 mm oversize, big difference.

Secondly, you just now found out your engine has more than 13:1 compression ratio, when most of us have been saying this for awhile. Remember your math came up with 11.8 for the N1 pistons.

Third, using the 16VE windage tray. Simply cranking the engine by hand would tell you the 2.0 crank can’t run with it.

Fourth, did not install the screw for the rocker arm rod.

Seriously, I question your mechanical ability.

I thought I help you out by giving you a hint. But all I hear is an excuse on your part. Like you meant to do that, please. Why go to the trouble of putting the marks close to the stock position if you have a special method?

Finding piston tdc is useless by itself when it comes to cam timing. You have to know both the cam lift and the piston relative position in order to know the actual cam timing.

The timing marks are there to help you. They put the cams in the general position relative to the crank for the correct cam timing. If you want to be more precise then you will need to get adjustable cam gears and degree wheel.

As for the possibility of chain jumping on the crank gear, Nissan has addressed this by providing a guide lip on the VE front cover so that won’t happen.


Dude you need to pipe the **** down and gett off your ****ing high horse.

The chain was not a brand new chain. I was not going to rely on an old shadow of paint figure on the bottom link which goes on the crank - comprendo? Easy to understand? Get it?!

The cam timing is spot on - i know this. I dont care for coloured links. If i hda cared for coloured links i would have lined them up.

First of all smartarse. Nissan quoted me and my jap fast tranlated it to 20 THOU oversized. The engine is bored to 0.25mm . Got it?

Secondly. The head was skimmed, and the deck was also skimmed. Out of hole height increased. The engine had previously been used before (i think andeman actually had this engine years ago) From then to now - somewhere in between - it has been slightly milled previously. My calculations that i was ASKING IN DISCUSSION was based on a given motor - in factory spec. So jam that one up your pipehole too.

Thirdly. 16ve windage try did NOT come into contact during cranking by hand nor starter motor.

Fourthly. I didn not asemble the head nor performa any of the machine work or clearances on the head. I got that done by a friend who deals with this stuff every day. Yes - the screw was installed to stop the rocker pivot rod from sliding and spinning with engine harmonics

Fithly. You are smoking too much crack 5 speed - or i think one of your sliders is jamming. TDC is TDC. You cant get much more than TDC. Since you appear to be stroking your ego - with yoru knowledge you SHOULD realise that a timing CHAIN is far different from a timing belt setup. Irrelevant if the crank is 0.20 mm below or above TDC in the stroke - the timing chain will only link in one position. However just as has been said further on - you check once, check twice, check a thrid time and guess what! I checked a fourth time. I know what im doing and TDC is where it was at. I dont have a need to or want to go for cam gears yet to fine tune that exact enth of a HP out of my engie yet.
2010-01-26 14:38:28
#48
wowser!!!
2010-01-26 18:52:52
#49
meeeeooow
2010-01-26 20:45:00
#50
Originally Posted by Autech
Dude you need to pipe the **** down and gett off your ****ing high horse.

The chain was not a brand new chain. I was not going to rely on an old shadow of paint figure on the bottom link which goes on the crank - comprendo? Easy to understand? Get it?!

The cam timing is spot on - i know this. I dont care for coloured links. If i hda cared for coloured links i would have lined them up.

First of all smartarse. Nissan quoted me and my jap fast tranlated it to 20 THOU oversized. The engine is bored to 0.25mm . Got it?

Secondly. The head was skimmed, and the deck was also skimmed. Out of hole height increased. The engine had previously been used before (i think andeman actually had this engine years ago) From then to now - somewhere in between - it has been slightly milled previously. My calculations that i was ASKING IN DISCUSSION was based on a given motor - in factory spec. So jam that one up your pipehole too.

Thirdly. 16ve windage try did NOT come into contact during cranking by hand nor starter motor.

Fourthly. I didn not asemble the head nor performa any of the machine work or clearances on the head. I got that done by a friend who deals with this stuff every day. Yes - the screw was installed to stop the rocker pivot rod from sliding and spinning with engine harmonics

Fithly. You are smoking too much crack 5 speed - or i think one of your sliders is jamming. TDC is TDC. You cant get much more than TDC. Since you appear to be stroking your ego - with yoru knowledge you SHOULD realise that a timing CHAIN is far different from a timing belt setup. Irrelevant if the crank is 0.20 mm below or above TDC in the stroke - the timing chain will only link in one position. However just as has been said further on - you check once, check twice, check a thrid time and guess what! I checked a fourth time. I know what im doing and TDC is where it was at. I dont have a need to or want to go for cam gears yet to fine tune that exact enth of a HP out of my engie yet.


I guess the truth hurts.

Seriously, are you numb?

Let me break it down for you.

Standard Cylinder Bore I.D. grade 2 = 86.01 -86.02 mm

Standard Piston diameter grade 2 = 85.99-86 mm

Total Piston to Bore clearance( Bore – Piston) = .01-.03 mm

Now lets look at your build and your insistent the N1 oversize piston is .020”/.51mm.

Bored inside diameter = 86.01-86.02 + .25mm over bore = 86.26-86.27 mm

Claimed N1 .20”/.51mm oversize piston = 85.99-86mm + .51mm = 86.5mm-86.51mm

Total Piston to Bore clearance = -.24mm

That means the piston is bigger than the bore. It can’t go in unless the N1 oversize piston is actually .20mm/.008”. That is what the 20 number on top of the N1 piston mean.
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