Thread: Kelford 184-C on the Dyno - Progress so Far.

yeah standard tb is plenty big and it sounds like the problem area's will be addressed. Cant wait to see results once finished

thats a big call considering he is running shortened fuji's. Dont get me wrong i think there will be gains to be had, but i dont think it it will be a miraculous transformation.

@ Clint. What is the advantage of shortened secondaries?

Peace

The std 60mm T/B usually becomes restrictive around 220-230whp IF THAT IS THE LIMITING FACTOR. the std intake manifold is killing the intake flow. With a 272cfm head and a std 16/20ve intake manifold, the ACTUAL intake flow is reduced to around 215-225cfm depending on how the ports line up. That is the restriction in all of these motors.

My budget header should not be restrictive on most 2.0L builds. If you get a very high ported head and HUGE cams, then the header will be too small and you will want a 4-1 stepped big boy that I make.

And 230whp is more than we're expecting from this engine at this stage hence the reason for retaining the stock TB. If we put the header on & she monsters up I'll reconsider that decision

niZmo - The shortened secondaries were actually a suggestion of Charles' back in early 2007. The std secondaries are something like 21 inches flange to flange which restricts the ability to make power further up the rev range. Std primaries are somewhere in the 15 inch range so the first idea was to shorten the secondaries to the same length as the primaries & see what happened... no use cutting them too short straight away & losing too much bottom end if a little longer would work just as well. Amdeman did this retaining the Fuji collector & I did the same but with a Burns collector which unfortunately was spec'd too small (don't use 2.25 choke folks).

Adrian actually chopped his a little shorter to 14 inches & I did the same once I ditched the Burns collector so that we could have identical exhausts. We're neck & neck in the power dept & have gone about making that power in different ways so have kept our exhausts the same for comparison purposes until now. According to Vince at Burns, the theorotical ideal secondary length is half the length of the primaries but the most power is usually made 2 - 4 inches longer than theoretical length, hence why 11 iches would have been the next cut.

What we've done has worked for Adrian, he now makes power all the way to 8,400rpm... didn't work for me unfortunately although going back to the Fuji collector made a huge difference both in noise & midrange power.

I just want to emphasize that the header configuration and cams will not be the LIMITING factor in the power from these motors. it is AND WILL BE the intake flow. Messing around with custom fuji secondary lengths wont get you much of anywhere for something like this. You will need a header with tuned primary lengths ( 4-2-1 or 4-1, either way) and as well as something between the Throttle body and cylinder head that doesnt restrict air flow.

Intake is definitely on the list but at the moment I would be calculating the runner length for 7,300rpm & I'm hoping the full merge headers will aid in improving the intake velocity enough to get the engine to make power up in the RPM range a bit... also still haven't done the 184-C vs Franklin test which will happen post-header install.

I would like to point out to everybody that we didn't just chop our Fujis up blindly, I sent all of the engine specs & flow data to Burns along with measurements & photos of the ports & the Fujis themselves. After they did the numbers, the Fuji Primary was close enough to make it a worthwhile exercise so we went ahead & cut them up. All for experimentation but with a little research first!

The reason was because very few Aussie & NZ VE owners could afford the custom headers that were available at the time & if this had worked well, it would've been an alternative. That's all changed a bit now with the release of the budget header & the nose-dive of our currency against the yen. The ASP header is now cheaper than Fujis.

well, wait until the asp headers are on as the power band might move. Also when you intake is done, depending on the specs obviously i think your peak power will move 500-1000rpm higher

the peak power probobly wont increase much because of air flow limitations. I have checked plenty of headers on the same motor and the peak power will rarely move up that high unless the header is the restriction. My budget header is designed for these "basic" bolton motors however and it does increase power everywhere from 5000-7500rpm drastically. This is due to several factors but this header will help scavenging for sure. On highly modified motors with larger cams and a lot of headwork, this header will most likely be a restriction.

With your ASP headers snickers, could he shorten the secondaries to tune the length to a more appropriate overall length for the bigger cams or is it tube diameter or collector size that is the problem?