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Thread: How to make your fuel and timing maps AKA "TP/LOAD" scales

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Posts: 181-190 of 193
2013-03-02 01:39:10
#181
Originally Posted by UNISA
Just want to take a timeout and say I like this thread


Agreed, we haven't had a good technical discussion in a while.
2013-03-02 18:02:51
#182
This picture is showing you whats happening during throttle lift off (you loggers see this all the time when you drive around and the curser flys all the way back to the left during throttle lift) its this period when TP and BOOST need to be ignored (when collecting data for averages and scatter plots) but you would have to individual review ever throttle lift off occurance and yea to much work im sorry bu boost just doesn't bleed off faster than the data thats being transmitted about the throttle angle (TPS) whilst the TPS is closing during lift off boost is still making it past the throttle plate hemce the BOOST reading while TP is racing lower and that makes perfect sense and its clear to see on any log you would do.

I wish you could watch this log in real time and see the characteristics of what im trying to explain here cause it happens over and over again during every single event of throttle lift weather it be partial, full or some type of weird feather of the throttle you might be doing because your taunting that guy in the bugatti veyron

Last edited by UNISA JECS on 2013-03-02 at 18-07-06.
2013-03-02 18:08:39
#183
Damn I cant get the picture bigger but basically whats circled is bleed down from 6psi to 5psi over a wide range of TP.
2013-03-02 19:32:45
#184
You can gather from the information that TP follows alot of things that are digitally monitored that react instantanious and that find and dandy and good for your eyes to easily see.


But

Other digital sensors being monitored in the log mainly like RPM and BOOST dont change direction as quick because boost isnt going to completly stop entering the inatake manifold until the throttle blade is fully shut, and RPM takes a little while spin down, these two things just dont happen nearly as quick as a change in throttle position does and thats fine it is what it is. You just have to know this and this will make you a better tuner.


It will be cool if somehow you could sort the data in such a way that everytime TPS reaches its plateu and falls that data could be eliminated that way you could see a better resolution of TP and BOOST relationship, kinda hard to explain but it would weed out this FUNK data.
2013-03-03 20:00:22
#185
Per your request here is a couple more pulls and you can tell from the log how TP follows MAP and injection duty very nicely, I really wish I could upload the excel CVS file

2013-03-04 20:08:54
#186
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Originally Posted by 5speed
I don’t think anybody is disagreeing with a trend with Boost/PSI and TP, based on Jecs’s logs.
Based on his logs, I find it inconclusive. If he did proper logs, I believe they would show there is NO trend. I'm still holding out 100%, yes.

I don't see how someone can look at this image and think Pressure and TP trend. The mind bottles.
http://i.imgur.com/gOcWzkf.png


Benfenner, you can't possibly think that graph backs up or helps your argument. It's an ACME cartoon graph. You already admitted you made up the boost curve. Vadim's logs only gave RPM and TP.


Originally Posted by BenFenner
The place where you will see repeatable, undeniable, and relevant (since it seems tuning under power is your thing) differences in TP and MAP is after torque peak to redline. For whatever reason, out of all of your logs, you seem to stop before the real differences start showing up. I know you're doing a good bit on your own time and for very little self gain, so I'm not going to ask you to do more...
But if it were me, I'd be doing WOT runs to redline. WOT from down low to redline. No mistake about it. None of this BS 1/2 throttle crap. Bounce off that limiter at WOT once for a real log. What is your redline anyway?

(Since your car is boosted we can't use below torque peak like we could with an N/A car to show the discrepancy clearly because the turbo messes with pressure down there making it hard to see clear as day like you can after torque peak.)



I completely agree with the above statement. I also think Jecs should do a WOT from when full boost is achieve to redline.You will see the biggest discreptancy between boost pressure and TP at WOT. For whatever reason, Jecs has avoided your request.



Originally Posted by UNISA
Per your request here is a couple more pulls and you can tell from the log how TP follows MAP and injection duty very nicely, I really wish I could upload the excel CVS file




Jecs we can't really see the details with the above screenshot. Do us a favor and put it in the same format as below.


Originally Posted by UNISA



This graph below is comparing MAP to TP.............and MAP - 1ATM to TP (the one that follows alot closer)
2013-03-04 21:03:02
#187
Here is a copy of that pull to redline and BTW visually the BLUE and GREEN LINES are BOOST and TP and its pretty clear to see they follow eachother.

Now this is an excel screen shot of that very pull that ends at 6875 annotated by the red marker in the above post you quoted 5speed

Last edited by UNISA JECS on 2013-03-04 at 21-58-42.
2013-03-04 21:24:29
#188
A correction factor has to be applied so TP and MAP (Boost) make sense above 1ATM
Last edited by UNISA JECS on 2013-03-04 at 21-44-11.
2013-03-04 21:43:30
#189
Originally Posted by 5speed
Benfenner, you can't possibly think that graph backs up or helps your argument. It's an ACME cartoon graph. You already admitted you made up the boost curve. Vadim's logs only gave RPM and TP.
Sure, but every WOT log out there for an N/A engine follows the pressure line I put in there. I don't have access to my old N/A MAP sensor logs but they were solid across the board.
2013-03-04 21:53:41
#190
Originally Posted by BenFenner
Originally Posted by 5speed
Benfenner, you can't possibly think that graph backs up or helps your argument. It's an ACME cartoon graph. You already admitted you made up the boost curve. Vadim's logs only gave RPM and TP.
Sure, but every WOT log out there for an N/A engine follows the pressure line I put in there. I don't have access to my old N/A MAP sensor logs but they were solid across the board.


Im sure it does follow up until 0 psi and then you have to appliy a correction factor of 1 ATM (14.69595) MAP - 14.69595 = corrected psi to correlate with TP.

Its very easy to see this without any number data whatsoever when you look at what 5speed quoted the two pictures, one showing a correction factor applied and the other not, you can see how it follow right up until 0 psi, and then you can see it follows the entire TP graph with that correction factor applied for boosted applicatins.
Last edited by UNISA JECS on 2013-03-04 at 21-56-06.
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