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  1. #1
    Jah Guide
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    Default Check Out The Price On This 92mm Crank

    This crank has a great price of $879 and it is knife edged and it looks like it is low in weight.

    Stroker 4340 Billet Nissan SR20DET Crankshaft 92mm: eBay Motors (item 270645745397 end time Nov-05-10 20:05:10 PDT)



    Last edited by Andreas Miko; 11-04-10 at 09:42 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Mmmmm
    Fastest N/A SR20DE in UK 2009 & 2010.
    SR20VE ITB + standalone, coming 2011.

  3. #3
    The People's Mod
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    Hey, that's actually properly knife-edged.
    Although is CXMotorSports some fake Chinese front of a company? Like CXRacing? Quality would be highly suspect IMO if that were the case.

  4. #4
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    Oh just reading the description makes it sound questionable. Stock cranks are forged, right?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    Hey, that's actually properly knife-edged.
    Although is CXMotorSports some fake Chinese front of a company? Like CXRacing? Quality would be highly suspect IMO if that were the case.
    I wouldn't say that was proper tbh.. its still got a flat face on the leading edge of the counterweights...
    Fastest N/A SR20DE in UK 2009 & 2010.
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  6. #6
    Jah Guide
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    I guarantee you guy that most of the parts bought from well known comapnies are Chinese made. People need to stop with this Chinese stuff.

    I would not doubt that Manley and Eagle rods are chinese made also.
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

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  7. #7
    The People's Mod
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    Yah I guess Chinese-made isn't what I meant.

    I meant Chinese designed, spec'd and quality-checked built specifically to the bottom dollar.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy_master View Post
    I wouldn't say that was proper tbh.. its still got a flat face on the leading edge of the counterweights...
    I was comparing it to another company's "knife-edged" stroker crank which in fact is anything but.

    However when 99% of people say "knife-edged" they are in fact referring to this exact shaping technique seen on the crank above. Obviously going further (while maintaining balance) would be desirable but the crank above is "knife-edged". You're basically asking for it to also be shaped hydrodynamically in another way. Some sort of "boat hull" technique on the leading edge.
    Last edited by BenFenner; 11-04-10 at 10:00 AM.

  9. #9
    SR20VETeran
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    its a 4340 billet crank. Meaning it came from one pieces. Forged just like our factory cranks. so unless for some reason their material is crappy, there is no reason strength should be questioned. Only other thing that would be questioned is the tolerances of the journals and how close they match the factory specs.

    This would all have to be done after purchasing im sure. Looks like a pretty lightweight stroker crank to me.
    1992 Nissan Sentra SE-R - Fully Built SR20VE, BWS400SX Billet 67mm and much more
    JMS Racing tuned to 716whp, 423wtq at 29psi
    10.5 @ 149.2mph to date I believe the fastest trap speed SE-R, Much more to come with some changes!

  10. #10
    Jah Guide
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    K1 crank Chinese made, people have been buying these for a while.


    The Mazworx cranks are also chinese made, just call and ask, they will tell you. I would buy a Mazwork crank with no problem.
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

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  11. #11
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    billet ≠ forged
    forging billets ≠ forged
    Last edited by BenFenner; 11-04-10 at 10:05 AM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    I was comparing it to another company's "knife-edged" stroker crank which in fact is anything but.

    However when 99% of people say "knife-edged" they are in fact referring to this exact shaping technique seen on the crank above. Obviously going further (while maintaining balance) would be desirable but the crank above is "knife-edged". You're basically asking for it to also be shaped hydrodynamically in another way. Some sort of "boat hull" technique on the leading edge.
    Yeah I misunderstood your point to be honest dude, thought you were saying the knife edging on this crank was proper, was about to post a picture of my crank haha.
    Joe
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  13. #13
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    Looks like a nice piece and wow that price is awesome. These must be a new item, I've never heard of these before.
    2.0 218/153- 12.9@106
    2.3 270/190- 11.6@116
    2.4 285/210- 11.5@118
    Retired...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy_master View Post
    was about to post a picture of my crank
    Post it up. I want to see it.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    Post it up. I want to see it.
    Its only a knife edged & balanced 4cw, you'll see it when I update my build progress
    Fastest N/A SR20DE in UK 2009 & 2010.
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  16. #16
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    So who's going to take a jump on it. Thats very cheap.
    -Bes
    SR20DEEP

  17. #17
    Jah Guide
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    Cast vs. Forged vs. Billet
    Manufacturing techniques play a substantial role in the ultimate strength of a crankshaft. Casting and forging are the two most common manufacturing methods, and each has benefits and drawbacks. Cast cranks start life as liquid iron or steel, and are poured into a mold. This allows the raw casting to closely resemble its final shape, which reduces the amount of final machining. Combined with the fact that the equipment necessary to produce castings is relatively inexpensive, it's obvious why cast cranks are the predominant choice of the OEs. Aftermarket cast cranks offer significant improvements in strength, and can be had for as little as $200.


    Weighing in at a scant 66... read full caption
    Weighing in at a scant 66 lbs, Eagle's lightweight 4340 forged cranks for big-block Chevys are rated at 1,500 hp. They're available in 4.000- and 4.250-inch strokes, and can be had with smaller 2.100-inch rod journals for those looking to minimize friction.In contrast, the forging process requires heavy duty presses and more extensive final machining operations. Forging involves heating up a cylindrical slug of metal to a molten state, then pounding it into shape with presses and dies. It is this compressing action that creates an inherently stronger end product over a casting. "In a casting, the grain structure looks like beach sand," explains Tom Lieb of Scat. "In a forging, the force of the press compresses the grain together so it becomes one uniform grain flow. As the space between the molecules is compressed, each molecule is forced to 'hold hands' with the next molecule." Compared to a cast crank, the drawback of a forging is cost. The heavy duty hydraulic presses used in the forging process are extremely expensive, which leads to a costlier product. Expect prices to start at $500 for more popular engine makes.


    Think of billet cranks as an offshoot of forged cranks. Like a forging, a billet crank starts out as a large cylindrical ingot of steel. However, while a forged crank is compressed during the forging process, the steel ingot used in a billet crank is already forged, albeit not quite as compressed as in a forged crank. The key difference between the two is how the ingots are shaped into cranks. "The metal bar used to make a forged 4.000-inch SBC crank measures about 4.75-inches in diameter and the crank's total width ends up being 6.75 inches when the forging process is complete," Lieb says. "The metal bar used in a billet crank of the same stroke is much larger, at roughly 8 inches, weighing 350 lbs compared to 150 lbs in a forged crank. Instead of twisting and pounding the metal in different directions as with a forging, a billet crank is made by whittling away the metal so the grain structure runs parallel throughout the entire length of the crank." Due to the increase in materials and labor over a forged crank, billet cranks are the most expensive of them all. Custom one-offs carry price tags in the neighborhood of $3,000. As for whether a billet crank is stronger than a forging, because there is no consensus in the industry, the various manufacturers will duke it out later in the story and we'll let you make the call.
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

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  18. #18
    Jah Guide
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    All that being said a Billet crank and a Forged crank and in general of the same strength and quality metal process.


    Just stay away from Cast.
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

    I Am A JWT Dealer And VRS Dealer.

    If you need any help 305-282-3643

    I sell SR20VE, SR20DE and SR20DET motors

  19. #19
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    Everything was great in that quote Miko until it fell apart at the end. They don't know if the forged is stronger than the billet? Yah okay.

  20. #20
    Jah Guide
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    Everything was great in that quote Miko until it fell apart at the end. They don't know if the forged is stronger than the billet? Yah okay.
    Well thats the point, no need to argue over it. Billet or Forging is still a high quality pc.
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

    I Am A JWT Dealer And VRS Dealer.

    If you need any help 305-282-3643

    I sell SR20VE, SR20DE and SR20DET motors

  21. #21
    Weekend Warrior
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    - Wow what a price. Hmmmm. I wonder how much shaving the block would need for this. If I bought this and sent it with my block to Mazworx, I wonder how much it would be for them to spec my block for this crank. Just when I was trying to keep things simple.
    Last edited by MR-4Door-SR20DET; 11-04-10 at 10:46 AM.
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    NA is a thinking man's game, alot of people dont have the stomach to play NA.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    They don't know if the forged is stronger than the billet? Yah okay.
    That is a true statement. Just because it is forged doesn't mean it is stronger than billet.
    02 Miata ---- 06 CBR600 ---- 14 Raptor
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  23. #23
    9k rpm crew
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    It's obvious they mis-labeled this crank, it's not a billet crank. Forged? Yes.

    Take a look at the counterweights, they are not machined. The leading edges are rough. The machining process would leave a shiny finish like the journals.

    Since they are in LA, I could stop by and take some pictures.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by wnwright View Post
    That is a true statement. Just because it is forged doesn't mean it is stronger than billet.
    I read the pro-billet argument in the article Miko linked in the other thread. I'm convinced those arguing for billet don't understand how the forging process works and what it actually does to the grain of the metal. Nor do they understand how machining a forged billet slug ruins the strength gained from the initial forging.

    But I'm not a metallurgist, so I'm not going to pretend to make an argument for strength one way or the other anymore. Obviously both forged and billet cranks have been shown to be completely adequate for 99.999% of engine builder's needs. The point is purely academic now.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5speed View Post
    It's obvious they mis-labeled this crank, it's not a billet crank. Forged? Yes.

    Take a look at the counterweights, they are not machined. The leading edges are rough. The machining process would leave a shiny finish like the journals.

    Since they are in LA, I could stop by and take some pictures.
    ^This would be great. The more help, the better.
    Bend But Don't Break
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    93 XE-R Project 4Door - DE+T - Money Pit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SR20GTi-R View Post
    NA is a thinking man's game, alot of people dont have the stomach to play NA.

  26. #26
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    Or go and take some measurment rather then pictures. Let's see how tight of tolerences this was machined to..and weigh it too
    2.0 218/153- 12.9@106
    2.3 270/190- 11.6@116
    2.4 285/210- 11.5@118
    Retired...

  27. #27
    BLUE RAY PWNES ME
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    This is a nice piece. I would bet its been speced out perfectly. Isnt this a k1 crank thats part of the briancrower stroker kit.

    Stratton.

  28. #28
    Jah Guide
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5speed View Post
    It's obvious they mis-labeled this crank, it's not a billet crank. Forged? Yes.

    Take a look at the counterweights, they are not machined. The leading edges are rough. The machining process would leave a shiny finish like the journals.

    Since they are in LA, I could stop by and take some pictures.

    Then there is Funny business afoot because the Mawork crank is listed as billet with the same features.

    Mazworx 91mm Crank as quoted ( SR 91mm 4340 billet stroker crank )








    Mazworx 92mm 4340 billet crank weight




    Cheap Price EBAY 92mm Billet Crank






    HKS Crank 92mm Forged crank

    Last edited by Andreas Miko; 11-04-10 at 06:04 PM.
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

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    If you need any help 305-282-3643

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  29. #29
    Jah Guide
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    I think the crank is billet just like the Mazwork crank 100%.


    The machining process of the crank will determine if the machines surface of the leading edge would be polished or not. It all has to do with the cutting tool that they use to chip away at it with which detirmines the surface grit
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Miko View Post
    I think the crank is billet just like the Mazwork crank 100%.


    The machining process of the crank will determine if the machines surface of the leading edge would be polished or not. It all has to do with the cutting tool that they use to chip away at it with which detirmines the surface grit
    Now this is also very similar.
    ARD FORGED CRANKSHAFT NISSAN SR20DET 2.2L STROKER (eBay item 360272882118 end time 13-Nov-10 08:23:10 AEDST) : Cars, Bikes, Boats
    ARD FORGED CONROD SET NISSAN 200SX 180SX SR20DET (eBay item 140473628354 end time 10-Nov-10 09:09:59 AEDST) : Cars, Bikes, Boats
    People in NZ have been using this for a while now with no failures up to date known.
    Might even be the same supplier

  31. #31
    Jah Guide
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    good stuff Kiwi-japie cranks look about 98% simular

    The crank you posted is 36.3 pounds which is lighter than the stock crank, not bad.

    The crank I posted should be about the same wight and at $900 is a great price.
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

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    I sell SR20VE, SR20DE and SR20DET motors

  32. #32
    Jah Guide
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    Let me make one more statement on this


    92mm Pistons Mazworx = $600
    Manley-Eagle Rods = $320
    92mm crank shipped = $950
    ACL bearings = $160

    Total = $2030


    Thats a great price for a 2.45L stoker kit.

    It is completly incredible how the price on the SR20 parts are droping.
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

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    If you need any help 305-282-3643

    I sell SR20VE, SR20DE and SR20DET motors

  33. #33
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    Dont you need Darton sleeves, Mazworx headgasket,.. ? Plus companies dont charge a few for block work.

  34. #34
    Jah Guide
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagy View Post
    Dont you need Darton sleeves, Mazworx headgasket,.. ? Plus companies dont charge a few for block work.

    What does one thing have to do with the other. You have to sleeve a block to do any stoker kit 89mm and above piston setup, you are comparing apples to oranges.


    Previous to this, the cheapest you could get a storker kit for was $2900. Now the pice is down to $2040 for everything.

    This is great stuff
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

    I Am A JWT Dealer And VRS Dealer.

    If you need any help 305-282-3643

    I sell SR20VE, SR20DE and SR20DET motors

  35. #35
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    Yeah, i got it. Its very good price. Just not final.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    I read the pro-billet argument in the article Miko linked in the other thread. I'm convinced those arguing for billet don't understand how the forging process works and what it actually does to the grain of the metal. Nor do they understand how machining a forged billet slug ruins the strength gained from the initial forgin
    I would agree with this to a point, but again just because it is forged doesn't mean that the grain structure makes it stronger. I have designed forging dies before. They can be done wrong.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Miko View Post
    What does one thing have to do with the other. You have to sleeve a block to do any stoker kit 89mm and above piston setup, you are comparing apples to oranges.


    Previous to this, the cheapest you could get a storker kit for was $2900. Now the pice is down to $2040 for everything.

    This is great stuff

    This reminds me of another thread where people didn't get your point...

    Once again thanks for heads up.
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andreas Miko View Post
    It is completly incredible how the price on the SR20 parts are droping.
    Now if only it could be like the domestic V8s with $150 aluminum heads that gain untold millions of horsepower, etc.

  39. #39
    Jah Guide
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    I read the pro-billet argument in the article Miko linked in the other thread. I'm convinced those arguing for billet don't understand how the forging process works and what it actually does to the grain of the metal. Nor do they understand how machining a forged billet slug ruins the strength gained from the initial forging.

    Did you realy read the complete article and then make that statement. There seems to be some qualified people giving their opinion. I mean damn the guy from scat makes cranks and rods.

    Tom Lieb Of Scat:

    "A forging is not as strong as billet because the forging process stretches and shears the grain structure. A forging starts out as round bar of metal and gets twisted and turned to make the rod throws. What used to be centerline of the bar is now offset, and the grains get stretched, traumatized, and weakened, although some sections of it are substantially stronger than in a casting. With billet, there are no stress riser areas because the grain structure runs parallel to the length of the entire crank. Forgings are stronger than billet in bolts and axles because the metal isn't being stretched and sheared. There isn't a single Top Fuel, Funny Car, Nextel Cup, or F1 team that uses forged cranks, so you have to ask yourself why."


    Judson Massingill Of The SAM:

    "Up to 600 to 700 hp, forgings are every bit as good as billet cranks, given adequate journal overlap. However, when you start reducing the overlap with long strokes and small rod journals to reduce bearing speed, billet comes out on top. In our motors, billet lets us get away with less journal overlap."
    Good Thoughts Bring Good Vibes Which Bring Good Reasoning

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    I sell SR20VE, SR20DE and SR20DET motors

  40. #40
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    Yes, I read the entire article. Yes, I realize I'm disagreeing with those two guys. I'm siding with the other two guys you failed to quote who say they believe forged cranks are stronger than billet (and why).

 

 
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