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  1. #1
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    Default Adjustable B13 Rear LCAs, gauging interest.

    Update, in stock and ready to ship as of 07/24/13
    Parts and materials are in stock to build B13,P10, or GTiR control arms...if you want a set, let me know!


    Made to order Chromoly arms for the following applications are also available, please PM or email javier@turbofx.net for lead times.
    -P10 Rear LCAs
    -B13 Rear LCAs
    -GTiR V1 Rear LCAs
    V1 is the straight version
    -GTiR V2* Rear LCAs
    V2 is the curved version similar to the stock arm. *In prototype phase, still to be tested.

    Original Post
    Here's another possible product we have to offer. I made a custom set on my car years ago. These are "on car" adjustable lower control arms. The version you see here was fabricated from aluminum radius rods, left and right hand threaded heim joints, along with spacers for stock hardware. They could also be fabricated from chromoly or DOM radius rods. Let me know if anyone is interested and I will see what's possible $ wise

    don't mind the rust from my cage plate...


    Last edited by javierb14; 07-24-13 at 10:26 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Dude u have no idea how much I've been waiting for a set of these I need them pretty bad.
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  3. #3
    contemplating.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaotekxe View Post
    Dude u have no idea how much I've been waiting for a set of these I need them pretty bad.
    x2..
    what to build?

  4. #4
    Keo
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    Progress coilover and a fuel cell?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
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    for a good time call
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  5. #5
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    If these are made properly, I'm very much interested in a set.
    However, another forum member Viperoni has been working on bringing them to us for some time.
    Any interest? Blox Parallel links...

    I don't know the etiquette for this. Do you step on his toes? Do you do it only if he's taking too long? Do we welcome the competition as long as it's not a direct rip-off? Do you seek his blessing?

    =/

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    If these are made properly, I'm very much interested in a set.
    However, another forum member Viperoni has been working on bringing them to us for some time.
    Any interest? Blox Parallel links...

    I don't know the etiquette for this. Do you step on his toes? Do you do it only if he's taking too long? Do we welcome the competition as long as it's not a direct rip-off? Do you seek his blessing?

    =/
    FYI, the pictures that were originally posted in the thread that gave Viperoni the idea to make them came from Javier. I have a PM were he quoted them to me from last year January.

    Any interest? Blox Parallel links...

    See post 25, then see post 57 were he's thinking about building them.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaotekxe View Post
    Dude u have no idea how much I've been waiting for a set of these I need them pretty bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by b13fever View Post
    x2..
    I will start working on the bill of materials, contacting vendors, and figuring out pricing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keo View Post
    Progress coilover and a fuel cell?
    Yup, Progress coil overs setup for drag racing along with a sumped stock tank w/ an A1000 which is wicked loud!

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    If these are made properly, I'm very much interested in a set.
    However, another forum member Viperoni has been working on bringing them to us for some time.
    Any interest? Blox Parallel links...

    I don't know the etiquette for this. Do you step on his toes? Do you do it only if he's taking too long? Do we welcome the competition as long as it's not a direct rip-off? Do you seek his blessing?

    =/
    Quote Originally Posted by Naghebe View Post
    FYI, the pictures that were originally posted in the thread that gave Viperoni the idea to make them came from Javier. I have a PM were he quoted them to me from last year January.

    Any interest? Blox Parallel links...

    See post 25, then see post 57 were he's thinking about building them.
    Correct, these were designed years ago. I made these when I redid all the bushings on the car to prevent any possible suspension binding. The thought of manufacturing and reselling them crossed my mind a few times, but I never really followed through until now. Anyone can make these...doesn't bother me if their is competition.
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  8. #8
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    Well you have my interest. SoloSol said they were very noisy and the ends needed servicing or replacement every 6-12 months (of track usage?). I'm not sure where the noise comes from as the progress rear swaybar uses the same style links and is mostly silent. Maybe it is all the NVH coming through the chassis he's talking about?

    Obviously NVH goes up with the solid connections, but the joints themselves shouldn't be making much noise at all. If you produce a product that makes minimal noise (not none), is adjustable without disassembly (reverse threads on one side with tool placement on the bar), is relatively light and strong, fits perfectly using the OEM through bolt, and has a real world service life similar to the Progress rear swaybar endlinks (5 years or so) then I'm all in.
    Last edited by BenFenner; 06-14-11 at 09:15 PM.

  9. #9
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    I would guess the replacement of ends is directly related to the quality. There are rebuildable ones at the high end. Cheap steel at the bottom end and chromoly ones with grease fittings in the middle.

    I built mine on the cheap, but will put the good ends on as I maintain them.

    There's no rocket science in building a set of these. You could, in all honesty, make some with <$200 in parts, and a hacksaw.

    Making nicely machined spacers would be the only trick for making them for others, and they're not hard, it's just that you need 16 of them and so you need to find a way to keep the per unit cost down.

    I don't think there's any way to make these quiet, however. There's a lot of noise absorbency even in a polyurethane bushing.

    But they do add a huge range of motion to the suspension without binding. You will run out of training arm arc before you see any bind in the rear suspension. My suspension is some very long travel hotbits gravel rally coilovers, and the parallel arms have no bind, right up to the point where the trailing arm tries to stuff the wheel into the front of the wheel well.
    Mark Holden - G2 Nissan Sentra SE-R
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    Well you have my interest. SoloSol said they were very noisy and the ends needed servicing or replacement every 6-12 months (of track usage?). I'm not sure where the noise comes from as the progress rear swaybar uses the same style links and is mostly silent. Maybe it is all the NVH coming through the chassis he's talking about?

    Obviously NVH goes up with the solid connections, but the joints themselves shouldn't be making much noise at all. If you produce a product that makes minimal noise (not none), is adjustable without disassembly (reverse threads on one side with tool placement on the bar), is relatively light and strong, fits perfectly using the OEM through bolt, and has a real world service life similar to the Progress rear swaybar endlinks (5 years or so) then I'm all in.
    NVH definitely increases when rod ends are used instead of bushings. The spherical bearing provides a "direct" connection and doesn't have any of the damping characteristics of a bushing. It's not that bad though. My daily driver has a solid axle watts linked rear end using mid-level quality rods ends...it's totally streetable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vector View Post
    I would guess the replacement of ends is directly related to the quality. There are rebuildable ones at the high end. Cheap steel at the bottom end and chromoly ones with grease fittings in the middle.

    I built mine on the cheap, but will put the good ends on as I maintain them.

    There's no rocket science in building a set of these. You could, in all honesty, make some with <$200 in parts, and a hacksaw.

    Making nicely machined spacers would be the only trick for making them for others, and they're not hard, it's just that you need 16 of them and so you need to find a way to keep the per unit cost down.

    I don't think there's any way to make these quiet, however. There's a lot of noise absorbency even in a polyurethane bushing.

    But they do add a huge range of motion to the suspension without binding. You will run out of training arm arc before you see any bind in the rear suspension. My suspension is some very long travel hotbits gravel rally coilovers, and the parallel arms have no bind, right up to the point where the trailing arm tries to stuff the wheel into the front of the wheel well.
    I could offer both economy, mid-level, and high end rod ends as options and they would all be interchangeable/upgradeable. If I go the aluminum route, the radius rods with LH/RH threads and knurling/wrench flats will be turned on a cnc lathe. If I go the chromoly or DOM route, the weldable inserts would be turned on a cnc lathe and then TIG'd onto rods. Either way would produce a high quality part...the only difference would be the weight and strength per dollar ratio. stronger lighter parts usually cost more.

    These are the spacers I am currently using on my car along with a economy level rod end.


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  11. #11
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    Im in. Only thing that separates good adj. links from bad is how durable the heim joints are. Metal is metal, its how the joints are engineered is where the product is GREAT or JUNK. By looking the pics, these look pretty decent.

    Keep us posted on availability and price PLEASE.

    Thanks, Billy.
    1992 SILVERSTONE SE-R: Stillen POP charger, HKS sport exhaust, Hotshot header, Gspec short shifter, Nismo leather shift knob, Koni red shocks on stock springs, NX2000 front brakes with EBD Red Stuff Pads, Maxima Rear Brakes with EBC Red Stuff Pads, AT Italia 15x7, 205/50R15 Falken Azenis, 1990 240sx front lip, OEM fog light covers. As of 4/14/13 rolling on 46,575 miles.

  12. #12
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    I will get all the pricing along with the load ratings/material specs for the rod ends by the end of the week. One more thing that separates these from the rest is that we check all the threads prior to assembly and chase them if need be. We also use a high quality anti-seize compound on the threads ensuring easy adjustability. Thread engagement is super smooth...last time I adjusted mine, I didn't even need a wrench (except for the locknuts) to rotate the radius rods.
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  13. #13
    Rally Guy
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    Yep, mine aren't that nice looking, but they'll work for me

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  14. #14
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    When they are ready I will buy a set. Will they come with the dust boots? I only want your high end version if you offer choices. $$ set aside. Since we are not stepping on Viperoni I'm good. I don't give a ^$%$%^$%^& how noisey they are. I already have the overkill from tubular a-arms so this will be the final upgrade to my suspension.
    Last edited by mevans; 06-16-11 at 02:03 AM.
    In time you're gonna pay.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vector View Post
    Yep, mine aren't that nice looking, but they'll work for me

    How many miles/events do you have on yours? How are they holding up? If you could change anything about the design, what would it be? I'm all ears

    Quote Originally Posted by mevans View Post
    When they are ready I will buy a set. Will they come with the dust boots? I only want your high end version if you offer choices. $$ set aside. Since we are not stepping on Viperoni I'm good. I don't give a ^$%$%^$%^& how noisey they are. I already have the overkill from tubular a-arms so this will be the final upgrade to my suspension.
    Gotcha. Dust boots are an option, I have a source for those too. I spoke with a few vendors today and should be placing the parts/material order tomorrow and will have the preliminary pricing complete. Most likely these will be TIG welded chromoly parts. What would you guys prefer, a raw finish or powdercoated finish?
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  16. #16
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    Finish doesn't really matter to me. Raw is fine, or whatever.

  17. #17
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    raw for me.. ill get them powdercoated on my own
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by javierb14 View Post
    How many miles/events do you have on yours? How are they holding up? If you could change anything about the design, what would it be? I'm all ears



    Gotcha. Dust boots are an option, I have a source for those too. I spoke with a few vendors today and should be placing the parts/material order tomorrow and will have the preliminary pricing complete. Most likely these will be TIG welded chromoly parts. What would you guys prefer, a raw finish or powdercoated finish?
    Raw.
    In time you're gonna pay.

  19. #19
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    If you can look at a P10 also to see if they are similar in dimension that would be much appreciated. I'd love to know if I can use these on my car also. I know the suspension design LOOKS the same, but appearances can be deceiving.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    Finish doesn't really matter to me. Raw is fine, or whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaotekxe View Post
    raw for me.. ill get them powdercoated on my own
    Quote Originally Posted by mevans View Post
    Raw.
    The raws have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by blairellis View Post
    If you can look at a P10 also to see if they are similar in dimension that would be much appreciated. I'd love to know if I can use these on my car also. I know the suspension design LOOKS the same, but appearances can be deceiving.
    I'm actually looking at picking up a P10 for sale right now. If that falls through, I can always try and have a local owner to stop on by or check out a car in the parts yard.
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  21. #21
    BlueBird rider
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    i gots a p10 i can try them on
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  22. #22
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    sweet we'll have to take a look at it and see what's up. just in case they are different, the design I have in mind makes shortening/lengthening the arm length or widening/narrowing the rod end spacers really easy.
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  23. #23
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    I'm 99% sure for these matters, the P10 rear is identical.

  24. #24
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    Good to know! I have most of the components drawn,spec'd, and almost priced...should have a solid model with some stress analysis testing finished this week.
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  25. #25
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    almost have the components finalized...



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  26. #26
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    Would it cost much more to make the spacers conical? We don't need the extreme range of motion, and it would distribute the load a bit better.

  27. #27
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    A misalignment spacer isn't really needed but that would be a nice touch. I'll measure the flanges on the bolt and find out what's possible.
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  28. #28
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    How would these ride on the street, and how much for a set for a B13? Possibly powdercoated?
    92 NX2000VE - N1 cams, BC S&Rs, Hot Shot intake w/ pop charger, SSAC, 2.5" exhaust, B15 trans w/ 2000 SE disc, ACT HD PP, TWM shifter, Cusco FSTB & Active Tuning RSTB, AGXs+RMs. 189WHP

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  29. #29
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    They will definitely transmit more noise and vibration from the suspension to the chassis...this is more of a "race car" part since the bushings and their damping characteristics are being removed. Streetable is relative term, I would run them in a daily and just turn the radio up a bit

    Prices coming soon!
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by javierb14 View Post
    They will definitely transmit more noise and vibration from the suspension to the chassis...this is more of a "race car" part since the bushings and their damping characteristics are being removed. Streetable is relative term, I would run them in a daily and just turn the radio up a bit

    Prices coming soon!
    i like your style...
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  31. #31
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    What happened??? No updates??
    In time you're gonna pay.

  32. #32
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    I have most of the parts here to fab up the first set and stick of chromoly is scheduled for delivery tomorrow. I should have a finished product here real soon!

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  33. #33
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    PM me when you have some for sale. Really trick parts there.

  34. #34
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    Hey javier, can you school us on the range of available quality and attributes of rod-ends? And let us know which quality you're choosing and why?

  35. #35
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    will do, and thanks!
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  36. #36
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    Will you be willing to offer some covers for the end of the joints
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by David NA->FI View Post
    PM me when you have some for sale. Really trick parts there.
    Quote Originally Posted by BenFenner View Post
    Hey javier, can you school us on the range of available quality and attributes of rod-ends? And let us know which quality you're choosing and why?
    Quote Originally Posted by CalHasLostVegas View Post
    Will you be willing to offer some covers for the end of the joints
    x2
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  38. #38
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    Racecar Engineering posted a great article about rod ends a few years ago. Check out the pdf, In Rod We Trust!. It pretty covers all the basics on the types of rod ends available and what to look for when picking up a set. For the B13 rear lca design, I have three different types of rod ends that I will be testing and then possibly offering, might tweak a few things here and there...we'll see. Also, these are all interchangeable in case you ever want to upgrade or switch out to a different style.

    All three rod ends. 2pc metal/metal on the left, 2 pc injected teflon race in the middle, and 3pc aircraft style on the right.


    The first part is a FK bearing 2 piece design that is metal to metal. It is the most economical out of the three. I plan on testing the noise and durability of these when used with a protective boot. This part also has the option of adding a teflon liner if noise and durability become an issue.

    US made 2 piece, metal to metal.






    Specs


    The second unit is an import 2 piece design with an injected teflon race. Specs for these are somewhat harder to come by, but I have used them in the past with good success. Hopefully the vendor will send over the specs for these this week. These are little more expensive than the 2 piece metal to metal units, but not by much...so it's still an economy style rod end.

    *update*07/14
    Specs on the injection liner rod ends
    These have a ultimate static radial load of 17,900 lb. The are also made from 4130. Dimensions are identical to the 2 piece rod end.


    Import 2 piece w/ injected teflon race






    The last style of rod ends is another US made FK bearing unit. This one is a 3 piece metal to metal aircraft style part. Check out the specs, it is definitely the nicest out of the bunch, but also the most expensive! We'll test these out too and compare them to the rest. This one is also available with a teflon liner if needed.

    US made 3 pc metal to metal






    Specs


    Here are the two protective boot styles that I have on order. I most likely will end up using the full boot instead of the washer style...just want to make sure that it clears everything and works well.



    Last edited by javierb14; 07-14-11 at 10:18 PM.
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  39. #39
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    Very nice.I am down for these when they are ready for sure.
    SR20 Foster Home

  40. #40
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    Finishing up some fab work on a 260z tomorrow and then Saturday is lower control arm day

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