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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Turbo AWD View Post
    You're right.. good idea. I should sell my STI and do a turbo swap to my 97 200SX.

    On a side note, I apologize to the OP. I shouldn't have posted my opinion in this thread. Not necessary...
    Even better,

    Let's trade. And yes, I'm serious. As long as yours is paid off. I don't want another car payment.
    SR20DEEPMD
    '12 Subaru Legacy

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgreen View Post
    you guys are assholes...but proved my exact reason on why I wanna take out sti's in the first place so it worked out


    Not to hard bgreen, I took one out with i/e/cobb with my eclipse (pre-catback) lol

  3. #123
    Turbo Nut.
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    you can put down both times and numbers both consistant to awd if its set up properly.
    Stand Alone Or Stand With All

  4. #124
    www.sr20deep.com
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    I think im gonna pick one of those sti's up this week... I like the helicopter sound! IN MY OPINION!!!: I think they are great cars (if they had retractable roofs with parachutes mounted to the seats) for rallying, but other than that just jump them off ramps or send em off cliffs.

    MARSH TUNING
    SR20DEEP CT

    14 ram 1500 sport
    97 b14 back to boost!
    05 Thunder Mountain Blackhawk 240

  5. #125
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    Damn where's all these new guys comin' from?!
    SR20DEEPMD
    '12 Subaru Legacy

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Turbo AWD View Post
    In my opinion, over 200 wtq with FWD doesn't make sense unless all you do is roll race or drag with slicks.
    Hey man, you seem like a well spoken, knowledgeable person. And because of that I figured I'd let you in on my personal experience with torque in a FWD car and how much is too much.

    My car makes 237 WTQ and is at or above your magical 200 WTQ number from 4,500 - 7,400 rpm. (Dyno). With cold performance tires in the summer in a straight line I slip a bit at the top of 1st and there is a hint of traction loss at the top of 2nd. From then on it's smooth sailing. Everyone else with around 300 WHP from a turbo SR20 makes much more torque than I do and they all seem to report massive traction problems in 3rd gear in a straight line and only get grip in 4th and 5th. Obviously torque is the issue, but frankly 200 WTQ is not the magic number on these light cars. On a Mazdaspeed 3 it might be. I have no doubts about that, especially with 18" wheels . However we don't over-wheel our cars, and we have weight on our side, so we can get some traction where the Mazda might not.

    On the road course my car never even hinted at losing traction in a straight line or around corners. I could plant my foot into the accelerator and the car would accelerate and stick until my bravery ran out or I started a 4 wheel drift. With some heat in the tires I was begging for more torque, more power even on the slowest hairpins.


    As for the AWD/RWD/FWD argument, you're not going to find people around here who are too delusional. We know FWD is not ideal for most performance motorsport contest. However you said it wasn't good for any of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Turbo AWD View Post
    I'm sorry but there is no advantage in racing/motorsports of any kind to having front wheel drive.
    That's just not true. Front engine cars with FWD are much better at rally racing or ice racing than front engine RWD cars. Anything where traction is severely limited FWD has an advantage. Obviously not over AWD though...


    We can all concede that AWD and RWD are superior in almost every performance aspect that counts and given the chance most of us (all of us?) would take a RWD (or AWD) version of our own FWD car over most any car on the planet. However, there are plenty of us with more than 200 WTQ and gobs of us with much, much more than 200 WHP and in doing so most of us are not over-powering our cars. We still have traction. Just because your Mazda didn't doesn't mean we don't. They are two completely different animals.


    Don't think we're bashing on the Scooby. We're not. For the most part this forum loves them. We have plenty of members who own them and/or dream of owning one. If you don't want to trade Cliff for his car, I'll trade you for mine!
    Last edited by BenFenner; 03-23-10 at 09:54 AM.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Turbo AWD View Post
    In my opinion, over 200 wtq with FWD doesn't make sense unless all you do is roll race or drag with slicks.
    I will also disagree with this. When I was NA I thought 200 WHP and 200 WTQ would be good enough for a FWD car, and 250whp is the max you want on a street car. This was because a lot of people reported having traction issues above 250whp.

    My Ball Bearing T25 did 230whp and 220WTQ. I lost traction in first gear, other gears where fine. I will also say that it's not enough power. It is too much power for our weak transmissions, but a P11/B15 one should fix that.

    On my T28, I'm probably doing close to 250 WHP, maybe little less WTQ, and I have no traction issues. You learn to drive around it, know your limitations, work around them and you will be fine.

    Solid motor mounts (Prothanes), good suspension, etc. is a must too.
    00 G20t KH3- Loller Rocker + GT28 + 6 Speed
    05 Legacy GT - 5MT + Invidia Up + Downpipe
    04 Forester XT - 5MT + STI Up Pipe
    03 Spec V - Parting out Now

  8. #128
    We do it big in Texas
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    Hopes and dreams......
    03' Spec V: sold
    94' Se-r: Sr20det, parted out and sold
    08' Spec V: Totalled
    92' Se-r: Sold
    2002 Mustang GT:Some Bolt On's.
    255whp & 300wtrq

  9. #129
    Turbo Sr20
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    Ever seen a n old ford truck with 350whp and no truck bed or anything but a fuel cell in the back spin the rear tires to **** and slam into a street pole? I have because the idiot took all the weight off the tires so he had no traction. Atleast the motor over the front tires helps people like me (who have nothing in the car but a driver seat) so I don't slam into a street pole.
    Race Car: B13 Sr20de+t Garret 60 trim, BC2 cams, 50lb injectors, ACT 6 puck and HD pp :bigthumbup:
    Daily Driver: G20T Sr20de

  10. #130
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    I shouldn't have made such a general statement like 200WHP/TQ. You're right, I don't have experience with that much power in a B13/B14. The Speed 3 is way heavier and has unnecessarily huge and heavy wheel tire package. The other FWD cars I've had and driven have all been n/a and less than 170 hp.

    Cliff, I'd take your turbo Sentra but no thanks I like the Suby too much. I still have much love for SE-R's which is why I found another one for my DD.
    2004 STi
    1997 SE-R

  11. #131
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    Damn it was worth a try anyway =]
    SR20DEEPMD
    '12 Subaru Legacy

  12. #132
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    cliff, yo should scoare the craiglist adds. there are tons of first gen subbies for under 7k.

    i saw one last night with a bad motor, all it takes is a sti motor and tranny some bigger turbos and you have your self a very fast awd cheap subbie.

    ask nismonick although, his wasnt cheap by anymeans but he knows his subbie stuff.

    stratton.

  13. #133
    Turbo Sr20
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    Quote Originally Posted by STRATTON View Post
    cliff, yo should scoare the craiglist adds. there are tons of first gen subbies for under 7k.

    i saw one last night with a bad motor, all it takes is a sti motor and tranny some bigger turbos and you have your self a very fast awd cheap subbie.

    ask nismonick although, his wasnt cheap by anymeans but he knows his subbie stuff.

    stratton.
    I almost did this. My friend bought a suby with a blown motor and changed it our with an sti setup and he was selling it for $7000. If only I had the extra $2k and I would have gotten that over my g20 DD. Not gunna lie I love AWD especially taking it rallying in some dirt. I would never try that with my se-r it only likes nice paved roads.
    Race Car: B13 Sr20de+t Garret 60 trim, BC2 cams, 50lb injectors, ACT 6 puck and HD pp :bigthumbup:
    Daily Driver: G20T Sr20de

  14. #134
    ...Shift Happens...
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    I'm going after then with the vvl
    DragonZord
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  15. #135
    TTop pimpin!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgreen View Post
    I'm going after them with the vvl
    LOL you better get some spray to go with that or something or some slicks! or a T25, or a whole lot of money for the good bolt ons! Or the bolt on, boost controlled, STi's will own joooo!
    2002 Silver Corvette Z06 (3000lbs and fun as hell)
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    -Tauriq-

  16. #136
    ...Shift Happens...
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    no they wont
    DragonZord
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  17. #137
    H-town...we're different
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    no they won't

  18. #138
    Turbo Sr20
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    No they won't x3
    So your final decision is sprayed ve?
    Race Car: B13 Sr20de+t Garret 60 trim, BC2 cams, 50lb injectors, ACT 6 puck and HD pp :bigthumbup:
    Daily Driver: G20T Sr20de

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by nismo94tuner View Post
    If you want reliability, get a VE and throw a bottle at it. When cruising, your chillin with no worries. If someone wants to play, flick a switch and your moving out.
    I've seen this very scenario played out against a modded STI. The Subaru driver was not happy...

    Todd

  20. #140
    TTop pimpin!
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    STi..High 12 second low low 13sec car out of the box stock (no bolt ons yet). SR20VE SE-R with minor bolt ons...low 14sec to high 13 second car depending on the tires. Like I said...if you dont have spray or something then beating one is a no go. Just stating facts here.

    You dont need a VE if your going to spray. IMO Id just bolt on a DE and spray. With nitrous its way easier cause all you gotta do is up the shot. Just run a 75shot on a DE and youll be eating most stuff thats quick.
    Last edited by Johnny wangwang; 03-24-10 at 08:22 AM.
    2002 Silver Corvette Z06 (3000lbs and fun as hell)
    2003 Red Mazda Miata (AUTOMATIC!)
    1993 White NX2000 (Fresh!)
    -Tauriq-

  21. #141
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    with bolt ons and a good tune on stock turbo, there are STI's in the high 11's low 12's trapping around 110-114
    2004 STi
    1997 SE-R

  22. #142
    -marsh tuned-
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    Quote Originally Posted by sciamop View Post
    I've seen this very scenario played out against a modded STI. The Subaru driver was not happy...

    Todd
    I wonder where you witnessed that.

    BTW, give me a call sometime Todd. You went MIA!!
    -Bes
    SR20DEEP

  23. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Turbo AWD View Post
    with bolt ons and a good tune on stock turbo, there are STI's in the high 11's low 12's trapping around 110-114
    Either that is totally untrue or none of you knuckle heads can drive. I hardly ever see them out of the 13s!! I'm impressed when I see an 12.9 .. damn.

  24. #144
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    I don't doubt the low 12 second STI on stock turbo, however that's going to be rare to see on the street. Like BoyBeaterTSi said, I see countless WRX and STI drivers that couldn't launch their cars out of a paper bag if their life depended on it.

    Either that or they are (rightfully) trying to keep their car together in one piece.

    Dan and I had to pull teeth to get this one kid in a fully built STI to launch properly so he would stop getting completely embarrassed by, frankly, everyone.

  25. #145
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    I got some rsx's and si's I need to smackdown..first
    DragonZord
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  26. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgreen View Post
    I got some rsx's and si's I need to smackdown..first

    I recomend Second gear pulls (b14 trans)
    Or diggs

    We benifit from more torque then most K20's but their top ends can be nasty. Plus they have 6 speed vs. our long geared 5 speed.

    I pulled a white 07 Si sedan two weeks ago by about two car lenghts (starting in second); this last week he wanted a rematch (3rd gear) and he got me all the way to 120 MPH.
    97 200SX SE-R,- Totaled :cry:
    02 Maxima SE 6sp, Berk intake, BPI Flowstack,
    96 200SX SE-R - New Project car

  27. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by bgreen View Post
    I got some rsx's and si's I need to smackdown..first
    What do they run stock? How would a typical B13 DE with I/H/E stack up to stock RSX (type-s of course). From most internet videos I have seen it seems like they launch easier/better than a typical B13. I used to have a 1994 integra LS with a B18b and it would outlaunch my B13 all day. The double wishbone suspension in the front of the integra is so much better than the strut setup of the B13.

    As you can tell I am all about racing from a dig. Actually as far as I'm concerned running from a dig is what separates men from boys.

  28. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJse-r View Post
    How would a typical B13 DE with I/H/E stack up to stock RSX (type-s of course).
    If you're lucky it'll be close.
    Then of course if the RSX-S has I/H you're in for a world of hurt.

  29. #149
    IgotF'EDonAgb
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    When I raced one it seemed that they had a serious top end advantage, but if its from a dig its more about the driver.

  30. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by NJse-r View Post
    What do they run stock? How would a typical B13 DE with I/H/E stack up to stock RSX (type-s of course). From most internet videos I have seen it seems like they launch easier/better than a typical B13. I used to have a 1994 integra LS with a B18b and it would outlaunch my B13 all day. The double wishbone suspension in the front of the integra is so much better than the strut setup of the B13.

    As you can tell I am all about racing from a dig. Actually as far as I'm concerned running from a dig is what separates men from boys.
    More than likely your B13 had a non-lsd tranny.

    I have yet to be beat out the hole by any Ek,Eg, or DC Honda. I believe they all have the double wish bone suspension.

    Quote Originally Posted by PWRDbyUNCLEbens View Post
    When I raced one it seemed that they had a serious top end advantage, but if its from a dig its more about the driver.
    ^ X 2 on the top end; but from a digg if your out ahead of them by three cars then it would be safe to say you won.

    Funniest thing happend to me when I was DE with stock ECU, I pulled a SINGLE CAM Civic ex from a digg and that son of a B***h kept going until I hit the speed governor.
    97 200SX SE-R,- Totaled :cry:
    02 Maxima SE 6sp, Berk intake, BPI Flowstack,
    96 200SX SE-R - New Project car

  31. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoyBeaterTSi View Post
    Either that is totally untrue or none of you knuckle heads can drive. I hardly ever see them out of the 13s!! I'm impressed when I see an 12.9 .. damn.
    Not every driver out there is some F&F boy racer that can't drive but yeah there are sadly a lot of EVO and STI owners where its just way too much car. That is true in any community though...

    If you want to see mod lists and timeslips, etc, check the proven power bragging forum on NASIOC.com. I'm not making this stuff up.
    2004 STi
    1997 SE-R

  32. #152
    White lightning
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    I was never outlaunched by any Honda when I had just a DE. Launch at 4500 on the street and your golden. Better make sure you put like 2 cars or so off the launch on that rsx if it has bolt ons because otherwise your gonna lose. Put a highport cam in that lowport too. It helps more than you'd think. I pulled a half car on a gsr integra from a roll.
    95 200sx SE-R: 12.6@106 mods: t25@9psi and a whole lotta traction
    98 Altima: daily

  33. #153
    Honda killer
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    my setup allowed me to pull on a stage 2 06 sti, and this is with a boost leak lol
    1994 Sentra SE(R) T28 + 9psi

  34. #154
    Learning in progress
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    stock u13 bottom end. s4 cams, gtir mani with gt2871r. 740cc injectors.. whats an sti again.(j/k).lol

  35. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-Mill View Post
    my setup allowed me to pull on a stage 2 06 sti, and this is with a boost leak lol
    i aired out three sti's in the last two days haha.

    but the more and more i look at bugeye subbies im thinking bout getting one for a fun daily.

    big turbo awd are the ej20's just as strong as the newer 2.5's ? (dont know the 2.5 engine code).

    stratton.

  36. #156
    Rob
    Rob is offline
    WRX FTW
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    is nick up and running...if he is my $$ Is on him to clean your ass up!

    Quote Originally Posted by STRATTON View Post
    i aired out three sti's in the last two days haha.

    .
    2012 WRX SWP SEDAN
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  37. #157
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    ^ pfft. ill clean his ass up like i cleaned your ass up ! lol.

    i cant wait to see his car though, its been a minute since me and the crazy man got together, it should be intresting.

    stratton.

  38. #158
    Im not a chick!
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    stratton go to the nx thread and answer my question lol. My pm box is full...Bgreen did you put something together yet?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cliff View Post
    Pete and Jensen should be banned.....

    B13 XE Sr20 swap 5 speed swapped
    B13 LE GONE!
    NX2K RIP Aug 13 2007
    NX2k BLACK Part Out
    NX2k BLACK My New Baby!

    SR20DEEP MD:cool:

  39. #159
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    go to your thread.

    stratton.

  40. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by STRATTON View Post
    i aired out three sti's in the last two days haha.

    but the more and more i look at bugeye subbies im thinking bout getting one for a fun daily.

    big turbo awd are the ej20's just as strong as the newer 2.5's ? (dont know the 2.5 engine code).

    stratton.
    Actually the EJ205's are quite strong. I'd say the most common issue with those is spun bearings. The 2.5's have issues with cracked ring lands above 350-400whp. They have forged rods from the factory but hypereutectic pistons which can't take any det. Of course the best engine is the EJ207 which never came in any US Suby. If you're considering a WRX for anything over 300 I would just try to get an STI. You get so much more for your money...huge Brembo brakes, forged BBS wheels, 6 speed bomb proof trans capable of handling 600whp+ stock, bigger stronger rear diff, axles, driver controlled center diff, bigger turbo, intercooler, better intake mani, etc etc etc. The STI really is just hands down way better in every performance aspect. The 5MT WRX tranny is its weakest part.
    2004 STi
    1997 SE-R

 

 
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