Some Suspension Talk And Help.

[Andreas Miko]

I want to know who makes the best

Sway bars
Strut bars
Suspension Bushings
Springs
Shocks
Coilovers


Why are the Progressive bars better than the Suspension Techniques ones?

Strut bars, I figure the rear one from active tuning, Front we lets here the debate on that.

As far as shocks and springs go, I figure people will say AGXs and Hypercoil

Coilovers seems the best bet is Tein. I know there might be better ones but I am not sure if they are worth it


Just trying to get a view from all who have tried out alot of diffrent combinations.

[veilside180sx]

The ST bars aren't very thick, and the Progress ones are adjustable. (not to mention thicker)

Strut bars...take your pick, as I don't have a preference necessarily. (just make sure it's decent rigid)

Bushings...ES, or offset ones to add caster for the FLCA

Springs/Shocks/Coilovers CSK, or an 8611/8610 Koni setup hands down. (Steve Foltz can do the CSK's, and I can do the latter) I've used the majority of them that are on the market, and nothing comes close to the Koni's set up right.

Are you working on a B13 or B14 Miko?

[BoxedFox]

Are we talking street cars, track cars, or dual duty machines?

Actually, never mind. Here's my short list on dampers:

Direct-Swap Dampers (for lowering springs)

Top two for street cars would be AGX and Koni Yellow. They're both cheap, readily available, and the adjusters on both actually work. The AGX has less low speed rebound, which is actually more comfortable if you're driving on relatively smooth roads. Konis are nice because they're cheap to rebuild and can be revalved relatively easily. Both are of similar quality and are relatively cheap.

If I was building a track car, I wouldn't use either of them. AGX's can't be rebuilt or revalved, and there's not enough low speed damping overall. The adjuster range on the Yellows is too narrow for a serious track car, and the base valving for the off-the-shelf Yellows won't support the kind of spring rates I'd want (i.e.: 800 lb-f/in F/ 700 lb-f/in rear to start in a B14). That and they both exhibit terrible hysteresis and they both vary vastly in damping between batches (and even between individual dampers). If I had to choose one of these, I would choose Koni Yellows - it's the only damper we have in this category that can be readily rebuilt.


Height-Adjustable Coilover Dampers

For a strictly street-driven car, I would actually choose Tein's entry level twin-tubes (BASIC, SS, FLEX) over anything else. On the street, I would prioritize damper travel and consistency between the dampers on the left and right side of the car over heat dissipation and damping in the sub-60mm/s range. All of Tein's dampers are shortened to maintain as much damper travel as possible, and they have a dyno at the end of their production line (rare for a mass-production damper). They also exhibit far less hysteresis or cross-talk (in the SS and Flex) than many other options in the same price range... which I just realized isn't all that important in a street car but it sure sounds cool.

The sky is the limit when it comes to track-car dampers, and when I say "sky", I mean your wallet. My wallet tends to be very empty most of the time, so I would most likely find someone to build me coilovers using Koni 8611's. As far as "race car" dampers go they're pretty entry level. But you really can't find double-adjustables (independent compression and rebound) for our cars for that price. That and Koni is everywhere, so you can always find someone to rebuild & revalve them for you.

If I was more confident in my understanding of race car dampers, I would call up HotBits and have them build a set of DT2's to my exact specs. Those guys will do anything you ask them to, for surprisingly little money. Just don't expect them to have any direct experience with B chassis track cars.

As for dual-duty dampers, it's a toss-up for me between Koni Yellows and the Tein twin-tubes. They're far from perfect, but if you can compromise a little on both ends, neither is a particularly bad choice.

[Shawn B]

Originally Posted by Andreas Miko

I want to know who makes the best

Sway bars- Progress. Three way adjustable, with hiem link ends.

Strut bars - Active Tuning or Bolt-In-Bars RSTB. Cusco, Stillen, Nismo FSTB.

Suspension Bushings - Whiteline or Superpro caster bushings. Energy Suspension for the rest, be careful in the rear of the B13. There is reported "suspension bind" with those urethane peices getting stuck in one position. How much "suspension bind"? Well...that is open to debate. Remedies are listed/discussed between Mike K, Steve, and some other smart folks in the Suspension Thread.

Springs - Hyperco (progressive) or Road Magnet (linear). Other than that, you use Eibach racing springs with coil-overs. There are a *select few* major manufacturers springs that will work well with CSK's for a daily driver.

Shocks - Struts actually . Koni's, see what Veilside said....CSK's with whatever insert is appropriate.

Coilovers - Koni's with the GC sleeves for inexpensive and kick-ass street/HPDE usage. Bits N Peices is pretty darned serious, for racing really. Same with Advanced Design, Hot Bits and the rest of the "customizable" coil-overs.

Why are the Progressive bars better than the Suspension Techniques ones? The ST bars are one setting only, with polyurethane endlinks. The Progress bars are three-way adjustable with hiem link ends (no binding).

Originally Posted by veilside180sx

Bushings...ES, or offset ones to add caster for the FLCA

You are referring to the Whiteline or Superpro caster bushings. Which I *believe* are identical. From what I remember, Superpro makes the bushings, Whiteline distributes them under their name as well. You can get the Superpro ones from Bolt In Bars.

Originally Posted by veilside180sx

Springs/Shocks/Coilovers CSK, or an 8611/8610 Koni setup hands down. (Steve Foltz can do the CSK's, and I can do the latter) I've used the majority of them that are on the market, and nothing comes close to the Koni's set up right.

Yeah, whatever veilside says on Konis.

I'll just ditto that, or quote it.

[Setzer]

Daily and tracking nothing beats the Teins. We have run them on the street and on the track and they are great. I have shortened Koni's now and I still prefer the Teins.

[Keo]

Suspension Techniques sway use a bushing type end links and the Progress not Progressive Sways use Helms joints.

Progress is also adjustable front and rear, while ST isn't

[TeKKiE]

OMG, I get to tell Miko to SEARCH THE SUSPENSION THREAD!

EDIT: Here's the link to help you...

B13, B14, B15 Suspension Information...

[jerryeads]

Having set Progress bars under the car to hold up your VE :-)
The primary benefit to their bars is the heim joints - the other bars bind and hence change effective spring rate. I think it was Mike actually wrote about that a while back. I found that while the Progress bars are indeed adjustable with three holes to play with, there is ONE hole that is allows the link to be close to vertical, which if you read elsewhere is necessary for optimal performance of the bar (and least component stress).

Shawn - being about ready to put in the superpro bushings (full set f&r) now that it's starting to warm up (I did the ve in the winter on the carport, no way in hell am I going to do that again), is there a solution to the rear binding or should I just go get oem rear bushings and use the urethane donuts to keep the cat off the kitchen table?

[veilside180sx]

Originally Posted by Shawn B

You are referring to the Whiteline or Superpro caster bushings. Which I *believe* are identical. From what I remember, Superpro makes the bushings, Whiteline distributes them under their name as well. You can get the Superpro ones from Bolt In Bars.


Yeah, whatever veilside says on Konis.

I'll just ditto that, or quote it.

Yes I believe they are identical as well.

Here's a recent run I did of 8611 based coilovers. (note...these are 240 setups)

[veilside180sx]

Originally Posted by BoxedFox

Are we talking street cars, track cars, or dual duty machines?

Actually, never mind. Here's my short list on dampers:

Direct-Swap Dampers (for lowering springs)

Top two for street cars would be AGX and Koni Yellow. They're both cheap, readily available, and the adjusters on both actually work. The AGX has less low speed rebound, which is actually more comfortable if you're driving on relatively smooth roads. Konis are nice because they're cheap to rebuild and can be revalved relatively easily. Both are of similar quality and are relatively cheap.

If I was building a track car, I wouldn't use either of them. AGX's can't be rebuilt or revalved, and there's not enough low speed damping overall. The adjuster range on the Yellows is too narrow for a serious track car, and the base valving for the off-the-shelf Yellows won't support the kind of spring rates I'd want (i.e.: 800 lb-f/in F/ 700 lb-f/in rear to start in a B14). That and they both exhibit terrible hysteresis and they both vary vastly in damping between batches (and even between individual dampers). If I had to choose one of these, I would choose Koni Yellows - it's the only damper we have in this category that can be readily rebuilt.

Every makes this out to be like it is a 50% difference between inserts, which is not true.


Height-Adjustable Coilover Dampers

For a strictly street-driven car, I would actually choose Tein's entry level twin-tubes (BASIC, SS, FLEX) over anything else. On the street, I would prioritize damper travel and consistency between the dampers on the left and right side of the car over heat dissipation and damping in the sub-60mm/s range. All of Tein's dampers are shortened to maintain as much damper travel as possible, and they have a dyno at the end of their production line (rare for a mass-production damper). They also exhibit far less hysteresis or cross-talk (in the SS and Flex) than many other options in the same price range... which I just realized isn't all that important in a street car but it sure sounds cool.

The sky is the limit when it comes to track-car dampers, and when I say "sky", I mean your wallet. My wallet tends to be very empty most of the time, so I would most likely find someone to build me coilovers using Koni 8611's. As far as "race car" dampers go they're pretty entry level. But you really can't find double-adjustables (independent compression and rebound) for our cars for that price. That and Koni is everywhere, so you can always find someone to rebuild & revalve them for you.

If I was more confident in my understanding of race car dampers, I would call up HotBits and have them build a set of DT2's to my exact specs. Those guys will do anything you ask them to, for surprisingly little money. Just don't expect them to have any direct experience with B chassis track cars.

As for dual-duty dampers, it's a toss-up for me between Koni Yellows and the Tein twin-tubes. They're far from perfect, but if you can compromise a little on both ends, neither is a particularly bad choice.

The few Sentra setups I've seen Hotbits make had too long of dampers to be very effective on a lowered Sentra.

Tein's product line still has a good deal of cross talk through it's range of adjustment. The Basic's are sorely underdamped for the rates (which are too soft anyway) I've driven pretty much their entire product line...and tolerable is about the only word that comes to mind.

[BoxedFox]

Originally Posted by veilside180sx

The few Sentra setups I've seen Hotbits make had too long of dampers to be very effective on a lowered Sentra.

Tein's product line still has a good deal of cross talk through it's range of adjustment. The Basic's are sorely underdamped for the rates (which are too soft anyway) I've driven pretty much their entire product line...and tolerable is about the only word that comes to mind.

I didn't say the difference between Koni inserts was ~50% (that's a bit much). It is a noticeable gap on both the dyno and the car though, and it is worse than other OTS dampers out there.

Hotbits will shorten the dampers if you select the external canister option and ask them. You do have to ask them to do it though, and specify the exact amount that you want to have both the shaft and body shortened.

Off-the-shelf valving for the Tein's twin tubes are pretty obviously comfort-oriented (they have that progressive-digressive knee at lower speeds). If I was only doing a few track events a year though, I'd choose that and compromise some response for day to day comfort. That and if down the line you felt like you need something more capable on the track, you can easily get stiffer springs and have them revalved pretty much any way you want (I've yet to have them say no to any of my strange requests).

EDIT:

I'd also like to add that I think pretty much all of the off the shelf street dampers out there are too soft for serious track use. Setting the Yellows / SS / Flex to full stiff will get you by, but if I'm going to do that I'd rather get them revalved beforehand or buy something else, whichever my wallet can handle at the time.

[JCGator42]

After reading the entire suspension thread and this entire thread I am still in the same place Miko was at the beginning of this...

We have a definite answer as far as bushings, sway bars and strut bars. But when it comes to struts/springs/coilovers/top-mounts there is a lot of "preference".

I have not and probably will not track a car for anything other than drag racing. However I highly enjoy a nice stiff riding vehicle (think new Lamborghini Gallardo or Ford GT) where I can feel everything on the road I am driving on.

My budget is anywhere between $500 and $1000 but could be a bit higher given that it is "the best".

I have used lowering spring/AGX/Koni bumpstops combo before and loved it, but during some aggressive driving, I did find that it tended to either bottom out or come close to it once in a blue moon; that's exactly what I want to avoid.

If we could get a link to where these items could be purchased or a phone number/email address that would be GREAT!

I know that there are 2 builders of custom set-ups, but I am kinda weary of PMing and wasting their time if the setup is out of my reach ($1200+).

Thanks,

JCC

[BoxedFox]

Originally Posted by JCGator42

We have a definite answer as far as bushings, sway bars and strut bars. But when it comes to struts/springs/coilovers/top-mounts there is a lot of "preference".

I wouldn't think of it that way. We only have "definite" answers for bushings and antiroll bars simply because we don't have that many options in those areas. If someone made hard rubber, delrin, and/or drop-in spherical bearing bushings for our cars, there would be be plenty of discussion on purpose and "preference" there as well. Same goes with antiroll bars.

If you're willing to do some hands-on work, I'd say build your own shortened Koni setup (and re-use your drop springs). If not, Tein BASICs are decent bang for the buck and are right in your budget.

EDIT: Wait, you have a b13, don't you? Scratch that last bit. They don't make BASICs for your car.

[Domiken]

JC you cant go wrong with the Tein's man. In the P11 they were a blast.

[JCGator42]

Ok, excellent. I will look into the Tein BASICs as well as the CSK setup.

For a B13, from what I can read on the CSKs is to use B15 Fronts up front but also a lot of preference out back.....what do I use out back?

Also with the progress rear bar we should use 4 front B13 housings? I also saw something about using housings from other vehicles with a 2" OD?

What's the best way around it for a B13, keeping in mind the possibility of Road Magnet, Hypercos or at best GC coils on the ghettofied perch....although welding is not out of the questions I just hear a lot of "preference" on where the perch should be welded when to me I would think it is more of a science.

Sorry for all the questions guys, hopefully they help clear other people's minds.

JCC