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Thread: Preparing a Street(turbo) Car for a Road Course?

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Posts: 11-20 of 78
2012-06-15 15:09:06
#11
Any opinions/advice on my other concerns?
2012-06-15 15:41:56
#12
Originally Posted by gomba
Hi,

This is kind of an extension of the brake pad thread but I was getting a little off topic.

I'm going to take my street b14 to my first road course event. I just wanted the opinion of some of the more experienced road coursers out there on what I need to prep for the event? I already have a list made, but not sure if it's complete:

- helmet (bought)
- tires, both track and street (thinking of buying Kumho Ecsta XS..was: Dunlop DZ101)
- brake fluid (leaning towards ATE Superblue)
- new rotors for track only (cheapest out there)
- pads for track only (Leaning towards HP Blues)

How about strut settings? I'm currently on Road Magnet springs with AGX struts. What would be the ideal settings for a road course on my struts? Any other advice? Am I missing anything in my prep list? Do I need to change the oil for the track event? Do I need a thicker oil? How about gas/boost? I was thinking of running about 12 pounds of boost and for 'safety' put a few gallons of race gas in at the track. I know the car will be getting pretty hot and don't want it to detonate, especially being a July track event. Not sure if this is a valid concern.

Thanks!



Tires: Question/concerns were answered above

Brakes/Pads: Cheapest Rotor and proper compound pads (I think I am running Carbotech XP10 out front and Hawk HP + out back on willwood dynalite 11 inch setup and it works just fine). Watch out on what front pads you run as I ran HP-Plus on the front, and had zero pads in less than 3-4 hot laps.........Also, to note, I was braking from over 140+ mph all the way down to a 2nd and 50+ mph. 3 laps of this and I was down to almost the backing plate.
You do not need to run a full race compound pad out back as the back does so little in breaking and it will upset the break balance quiet significantly. Also, there is nothing out back (read: no weight over the wheels) keeping the brakes from locking if running an aggressive compound. It will be quiet hairy to say the least...............

Suspension: Crank them all the way soft and leave them. You need to form a baseline before you start adjusting ANYTHING (read: learn the vehicle FIRST!). If you start somewhere in the middle your initial baseline from what you measure all adjustments from will be fairly skewed.

Oil: Change before AND AFTER the event. I normally run something a bit thicker. Currently at 15W50 Oil from Mobil 1


Boost/Gas: Keep it running off the wastegate pressure (or as low as possible). More boost = more fuel = more boom = more heat which inevitably means a much BIGGER BOOM!! . If you are at a fairly low boost level 93 Octane is fine (which is another good reason to keep boost at a minimum. Its overall cheaper as you are not spending $7-9/gallon on race gas).

Can you tell us more about your current setup??

My biggest concerns are this for any turbo track car

1) Heat (cooling system)
2) Heat (overheating the brake system by using incorrect compound pads)
3) Heat (Too much boost)
4) Heat (overheating the tires because you are running too much power through the front wheels)
.
.
.
.
.
.
5) Mechanical
- Make sure you have the proper higher temp brake fluid and it has no bubbles
- Check cooling system and make sure thermostat, radiator, fans (for idling in the pit lane), water pump, etc are up to scratch
- Consumables (fluids, brakes, tires especially)
- Tools
- Spares
- A ride home incase anything does break (which is a possibility)

If I think of anything else, I will post here

Goodluck!!
Last edited by Boostlee on 2012-06-15 at 15-47-53.
2012-06-15 16:44:27
#13
Very nice summary!

For pads, I'm thinking of doing Hawk Blues in the front and whatever's been on the car since I bought it in the rear. Perhaps I should at least get new pads/rotors for the rear. Oddly enough, after all the time I've owned the car the rear pads have quite a bit of life on them which tells me they don't get used very much. Maybe just putting Hawk HPS's on the rear pads would be ok?

Setup is in my sig...besides that I'm using a G20 radiator for cooling. I'm using the W10 heat shield for manifold and J-pipe. I'm also going to be wrapping my downpipe with thermal wrap before the track day. Suspension mods are AGX struts and RM springs. ES Bushings for the front suspension. No other suspension mods.

Changing oil before and after the track day is something I didn't have on my list, so it's good that you mentioned it.

Was thinking of running @ 12 pounds of boost. That's decently low for my car. Wastegate pressure would be around 7psi or so. 93 octane should be fine for 12 lbs on the street, but I was thinking of mixing that w/some race gas just to be safe for the track...what do you think?
Last edited by gomba on 2012-06-15 at 16-54-09.
2012-06-15 16:50:19
#14
I am running the Kumho XS in a 215/45/17 size for the track. After the first day, chunks of rubber were flying off on my way back to the hotel. Not so much the next day. Fast forward a few months to the next event and no chunking at all. Also, not much wear on the third event, so I am pleased with the wear rate at this point. I run 34 psi front and 30 rear, but I will try 29 in the rear on my next event based on the wear pattern on the sidewalls. Never ran them in the rain.
I have Hyperco springs and AGX. I run full hard both front and rear on the AGX. But, my AGX have about 200,000 miles on them. This is a B14 with stock front sway bar, Whiteline caster bushings, Progress rear sway bar and beam bent to zero toe.
2012-06-15 17:01:50
#15
ATE Superblue brake fluid is fine, but I lean toward the Motul RBF offerings (they are up to 660 temp now I think).

As for the rest, I'm with Boostlee's sentiment about the suspension, leave it full soft and go from there. That philosophy IMO should carry over to everything else. Make sure the car is in good shape mechanically, and then just get out there on the track. Have fun. Then learn what you may need to change or upgrade (assuming you don't blow the engine up).

There's something to be said about showing up with what you have now and methodically finding out exactly what you do need, and realizing what you don't need. And you can also go easy on everything in the beginning by keeping traction low. You won't be able to overheat much if you can't get load up the engine and consequently the brakes.

As for the boost level. I would go down to wastegate pressure for sure. You're going to find that 12 psi might be fun and maybe underpowered on the street but it can easily be too much power for the track. I'm having second thoughts about raising mine above 4 psi now that I've seen things in the rain. Maybe that will change in July when I get out in the dry. Or maybe I'll get the traction control dialed in.

My main concern would be keeping the engine lubricated and cool. New oil, topped off but not overfilled. Slightly heavier weight oil. Low boost. Keep things cool.
Last edited by BenFenner on 2012-06-15 at 17-05-13.
2012-06-15 17:25:43
#16
Originally Posted by BenFenner
ATE Superblue brake fluid is fine, but I lean toward the Motul RBF offerings (they are up to 660 temp now I think).

As for the rest, I'm with Boostlee's sentiment about the suspension, leave it full soft and go from there. That philosophy IMO should carry over to everything else. Make sure the car is in good shape mechanically, and then just get out there on the track. Have fun. Then learn what you may need to change or upgrade (assuming you don't blow the engine up).

There's something to be said about showing up with what you have now and methodically finding out exactly what you do need, and realizing what you don't need. And you can also go easy on everything in the beginning by keeping traction low. You won't be able to overheat much if you can't get load up the engine and consequently the brakes.

As for the boost level. I would go down to wastegate pressure for sure. You're going to find that 12 psi might be fun and maybe underpowered on the street but it can easily be too much power for the track. I'm having second thoughts about raising mine above 4 psi now that I've seen things in the rain. Maybe that will change in July when I get out in the dry. Or maybe I'll get the traction control dialed in.

My main concern would be keeping the engine lubricated and cool. New oil, topped off but not overfilled. Slightly heavier weight oil. Low boost. Keep things cool.


Won't a full soft strut setting make the car feel a little loose and bouncy on the track? Is the idea to adjust these settings during the track sessions?
2012-06-15 17:37:20
#17
Originally Posted by gomba
Very nice summary!

For pads, I'm thinking of doing Hawk Blues in the front and whatever's been on the car since I bought it in the rear. Perhaps I should at least get new pads/rotors for the rear. Oddly enough, after all the time I've owned the car the rear pads have quite a bit of life on them which tells me they don't get used very much. Maybe just putting Hawk HPS's on the rear pads would be ok?

Setup is in my sig...besides that I'm using a G20 radiator for cooling. I'm using the W10 heat shield for manifold and J-pipe. I'm also going to be wrapping my downpipe with thermal wrap before the track day. Suspension mods are AGX struts and RM springs. ES Bushings for the front suspension. No other suspension mods.

Changing oil before and after the track day is something I didn't have on my list, so it's good that you mentioned it.

Was thinking of running @ 12 pounds of boost. That's decently low for my car. Wastegate pressure would be around 7psi or so. 93 octane should be fine for 12 lbs on the street, but I was thinking of mixing that w/some race gas just to be safe for the track...what do you think?



I cannot comment on the HP-Blues as I have no run them yet (I was sent a set by the gentlemen from willwood to try out, but have not gotten around to using them). Our cars are relatively light (by today's standards), so I think you should be OK. Considering your setup, you can easily see speeds of 130+ mph if you get a proper launch onto whatever stretch at whatever track. So front compound becomes a little more critical (I literally had to start braking at the start finish line (1/2 way down the front stretch) because I was worried about the Hawk pads just going up in smoke!!! Which they inevitably did!! )

I am currently on Motul RBF600 dot 4 brake fluid. Works just fine I have never had issues with it becoming heat soak/saturated.

The G20 radiator should be fine. I was using a Stock 98 SE-R radiator at my lapping days and it held up well (albeit, with only a handful of hot laps). Me personally however, would upgrade to a full aluminum just for the piece of mind. These cars are simply not too efficient when it comes to keeping the cooling system in check. Add to that a heat blower and things become all topsytervy!! Just make sure you look into things like a increased pressure radiator cap (I have a 300zx one at the moment which I think is 1.3 bar) as well as adding water wetter to your cooling system

Suspension setup I answered in my previous post

Again, I recommend running wastegate pressure. You will quickly find the limits of your cooling system (as well as many other things actually) if you start with too much boost. 7psi on your turbo setup (a solid 200+ whp and 200+ wheel torque) is plenty for a 2500-2700 lb car!!

I can almost promise you, HEAT is going to be your BIGGEST enemy!

1) Check your ducting to your radiator/intercooler to make sure there is no debris of any sorts blocking any of the openings.

2) Check oil, coolant and brake fluid before AND AFTER event (and in most cases DURING between sessions). With the summer months, sometimes they tend to break down just a tad faster from being heat cycled at higher temperatures a track day introduces.

3) I would recommend having an extra set of tires for the track as the track eats these things up like you would not believe!!

4) Also, bring a set of street pads to swap over to if you are driving the car back home. Race pads HATE being cold and braking power becomes non existent if you are running race compound on the street as street driving simply does not introduce enough heat for the pads to begin to work!!


P.S FIND A GOOD INSTRUCTOR!! There can be some clowns out there
2012-06-15 17:38:10
#18
Originally Posted by gomba
Won't a full soft strut setting make the car feel a little loose and bouncy on the track? Is the idea to adjust these settings during the track sessions?



NO!! Common misconception..........

Valved correctly with the proper spring rate and you will be fine. The AGX/Road Magnet combo you have are actually pretty well matched together. The range of adjustment for the AGXs is relatively fairly limited however.......
2012-06-15 17:44:49
#19
Originally Posted by Boostlee
3) I would recommend having an extra set of tires for the track as the track eats these things up like you would not believe!!


Please tell me more.
2012-06-15 18:57:15
#20
Originally Posted by Boostlee

Again, I recommend running wastegate pressure. You will quickly find the limits of your cooling system (as well as many other things actually) if you start with too much boost. 7psi on your turbo setup (a solid 200+ whp and 200+ wheel torque) is plenty for a 2500-2700 lb car!!

I can almost promise you, HEAT is going to be your BIGGEST enemy!


Telling a boost junky that 7lbs is more than enough is like telling Charlie Sheen he only needs 1 line of cocaine. How else am I going to outrun the Z06's?! Times like these call for an EGT and oil temp sensor.

btw, what was your engine setup on the track?

-G
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